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kentuckyrosesinmay 03-15-2008 06:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Pants
I have a feeling we won't be seeing War Pass again. Hope I'm wrong.
If he was sick, and they ran the horse anyway, you could be very right. Hope you're wrong too.

Coach Pants 03-15-2008 07:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay
If he was sick, and they ran the horse anyway, you could be very right. Hope you're wrong too.
I hope he just had a little bug but it sure didn't look like a case of the sniffles to me.

Linny 03-15-2008 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by justindew
So, you equate simply being on the lead with "ideal"? That reminds me of what people used to say about Azeri. "She needs things her own way." Total nonsense. She ran the opening 3/4 in the 2002 BC Distaff in under 1:10, and romped. But she DID need to be on the lead, most of the time. In fact, she NEVER lost a two-turn race when she was sent to the front. Go back and look at the fractions that War Pass has set in his previous races. He has simply outrun everyone from start to finish. "Ideal" would be alone and slow. War Pass doesn't need slow, and may not need alone.
Some horses need the lead to win, some don't. Many speed horses are perceived as "need to lead" types until proven otherwise. It may not be 100% accurate, but it may be the way to bet. Azeri proved that she didn't need the lead to win but day in and day out horses who don't get the lead sulk and run last or near last against horses they ought to beat.
Slew proved in the Derby that he could get hit, boxed and blocked and still get to the front. WP had that chance today against overmatched horses and didn't do ANYTHING. if he gets a rough trip and loses to Atoned or BT, I say "OK, he got a lesson." He was dreadful. Either he is a cold frontrunner with no heart for a fight, or something was very wrong with him.
This coming from someone who has him at the top of a published "Derby Dozen List" as of last Tuesday.

whodey17 03-15-2008 07:38 PM
Good training by Zito today. I wonder if it ever entered his mind that it might be a good idea to try to teach War Pass to rate. It is amazing how War Pass has won on his talent and only his talent. Put War Pass in the hands of a capable trainer and he prob wins today and many more races in the future.

I love some of Zito's comments: "But he got moving and I thought he was in a good position going down the back, but when (Cornelio Velasquez) asked him, nothing happened. I don't know what happened. I just don't know." Glad to know that he doesn't know what happened. Heck, I could have told you that Zito doesn't know anything about training. And Zito thought he was in good position going down the back??? Glad to know Zito knows his horse so well.

Another example of a horse of Zito's who wins purely on his talent and not the combination of talent and trainer's talent.

Coach Pants 03-15-2008 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whodey17
Good training by Zito today. I wonder if it ever entered his mind that it might be a good idea to try to teach War Pass to rate. It is amazing how War Pass has won on his talent and only his talent. Put War Pass in the hands of a capable trainer and he prob wins today and many more races in the future.

I love some of Zito's comments: "But he got moving and I thought he was in a good position going down the back, but when (Cornelio Velasquez) asked him, nothing happened. I don't know what happened. I just don't know." Glad to know that he doesn't know what happened. Heck, I could have told you that Zito doesn't know anything about training. And Zito thought he was in good position going down the back??? Glad to know Zito knows his horse so well.

Another example of a horse of Zito's who wins purely on his talent and not the combination of talent and trainer's talent.
Did you still go all in the race?

Cajungator26 03-15-2008 07:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whodey17
Good training by Zito today. I wonder if it ever entered his mind that it might be a good idea to try to teach War Pass to rate. It is amazing how War Pass has won on his talent and only his talent. Put War Pass in the hands of a capable trainer and he prob wins today and many more races in the future.

I love some of Zito's comments: "But he got moving and I thought he was in a good position going down the back, but when (Cornelio Velasquez) asked him, nothing happened. I don't know what happened. I just don't know." Glad to know that he doesn't know what happened. Heck, I could have told you that Zito doesn't know anything about training. And Zito thought he was in good position going down the back??? Glad to know Zito knows his horse so well.

Another example of a horse of Zito's who wins purely on his talent and not the combination of talent and trainer's talent.
I was wondering when you would chirp in. Get a clue.

ArlJim78 03-15-2008 07:42 PM
like clockwork, old reliable mr. objectivity.

Danzig 03-15-2008 07:48 PM
you read threads like this, and then wonder how people can complain when a horse is retired. one loss, and many are ready to throw in the towel on the horse, and crucify the trainer. but we're supposed to expect breeders, owners and stud farms to risk a horses reputation. we want to see them run!!! that way, when one loses, we can bash the hell out of them..and then expect the stud farm to know that we'll understand when a horse loses. after all, they aren't machines.

unless they go off at 1/9.

sdjcom 03-15-2008 07:59 PM
War Pass Bigger Cry Baby Than Me !!
 
Hello, horseplayers

I said in an earlier posting War Pass has only beaten good horses as a 2 yr old . He has not progressed any. Alittle bump and he is done. What is he going
to do in a 20 horse field with lots of early speed ? I want to thank Steve Haskin for his info on Atoned this week, on ATR. I knew Barkley had Big trk
ready and was looking for an exacta w/o War Pass, i will say i had it 10 times
and also the win spot. I owe him a beer or two.

declansharbor 03-15-2008 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by whodey17
Good training by Zito today. I wonder if it ever entered his mind that it might be a good idea to try to teach War Pass to rate. It is amazing how War Pass has won on his talent and only his talent. Put War Pass in the hands of a capable trainer and he prob wins today and many more races in the future.

I love some of Zito's comments: "But he got moving and I thought he was in a good position going down the back, but when (Cornelio Velasquez) asked him, nothing happened. I don't know what happened. I just don't know." Glad to know that he doesn't know what happened. Heck, I could have told you that Zito doesn't know anything about training. And Zito thought he was in good position going down the back??? Glad to know Zito knows his horse so well.

Another example of a horse of Zito's who wins purely on his talent and not the combination of talent and trainer's talent.
Zito's absolute worst day would eclipse your best one by miles, any day of the year.
Stick to what you know, which would be nothing, besides post race comments.

Danzig 03-15-2008 08:00 PM
i am so glad we can have different threads on every aspect of war pass, and the developments of this afternoon....

Coach Pants 03-15-2008 08:01 PM

31lengths 03-15-2008 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kentuckyrosesinmay
I doubt it too, but someone else on here said that reports were that War Pass wasn't feeling well. I don't know if it is true or not...

I don't know that much about Zito so...

Not sure about how WP felt however Zito was right in front of us after the race and clearly said " what were you doing?" I thought it was to Cornelio V but someone else said that he was yelling at John V. Either way, he was animated and agitated. Chuck and T.C. thought maybe a breathing problem.

GPK 03-15-2008 08:15 PM
Ok...Im gonna attempt something I rarely do around here, and that is inject a voice of reason.

Anyone happen to notice on the PP's that War Pass had ZERO....count 'em ZERO works over the track?

I have seen enough races at TBD to know that not every horse takes to the sandy surface there. I have seen enough horses run well there and run like sh*t elsewhere and visa versa.

Cajungator26 03-15-2008 08:15 PM
Off topic, but look at Big Truck when he was a baby:



So cute. :)

NTamm1215 03-15-2008 08:19 PM
DrugS mentioned the potential usefulness in War Pass getting a stalking trip today and seeing how he could work with it. It may have happened inadvertently, but War Pass was put in a situation here where he was stalking. He hated it. That makes me think his chances in the Derby are even worse. Not a revelation here, but just my $.02.

NT

Cajungator26 03-15-2008 08:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Thank you for this. People have very short, selective memories. I realize it's Derby time, so sanity is thrown away, but this thread really take sthe cake. I'll admit, I'm just a dumb gambler, but to me it looked like he wasn't comfortable. Whether he is sick, hated rating, hated the track, Stevie Wonder could see that the real War Pass did not show up today.

Obviously going into this season, the big question was War Pass negotiating 10 furlongs. That question remains and after today, who knows if it will ever be answered. But I think we can all agree War pass has a lot of quality to him. Is he unbeatable, of course not and no one ever said he was. I just wonder if back in '94 people were talking about Holy Bull in this light after the Fountain of Youth. I'm not comparing the 2, but this is a pretty similar to what happened that day and if memory serves me right, he vindicated himself a few weeks later.
Well said.

hoovesupsideyourhead 03-15-2008 08:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
skip away ..nuff said....
exactly

Kasept 03-15-2008 08:46 PM
For race fans with stunningly short memories...

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ory?id=2017316

GPK 03-15-2008 08:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPK
Ok...Im gonna attempt something I rarely do around here, and that is inject a voice of reason.

Anyone happen to notice on the PP's that War Pass had ZERO....count 'em ZERO works over the track?

I have seen enough races at TBD to know that not every horse takes to the sandy surface there. I have seen enough horses run well there and run like sh*t elsewhere and visa versa.

I REPEAT....ZERO WORKS OVER THE TRACK

Kasept 03-15-2008 08:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept
For race fans with stunningly short memories...

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ory?id=2017316
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/horse...as-derby_x.htm

ddthetide 03-15-2008 08:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bid
Travis, taking todays race out of the mix how many horses had been inside a length of WP at any point of call in a race?

Suicide is thinking this horse doesnt win by open lengths if hes allowed to break clean
why would anyone think WP will get a clean break in the 20 horse field of the derby? that's begging for the 20 post and i can't believe he'd get a free run to the front from there.

hoovesupsideyourhead 03-15-2008 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPK
I REPEAT....ZERO WORKS OVER THE TRACK
its a travishamockery..gpk the voice of reason..war pass is a broken down rat...thats what we should say after tossing a clunker..i think not....pyro has two ..his last two were not that good.........

GPK 03-15-2008 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
its a travishamockery..gpk the voice of reason..war pass is a broken down rat...thats what we should say after tossing a clunker..i think not....pyro has two ..his last two were not that good.........

MN....if there is ever a track you HAVE to take that into consideration, its TBD.

hoovesupsideyourhead 03-15-2008 08:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPK
MN....if there is ever a track you HAVE to take that into consideration, its TBD.
i hear ya......on a side note i got down in pool 2 on elysium fields 17-1
and smooth air 99-1 in future pool 2:cool: :D

GPK 03-15-2008 09:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
i hear ya......on a side note i got down in pool 2 on elysium fields 17-1
and smooth air 99-1 in future pool 2:cool: :D

Good luck on those.

Rockport Harbour cured me of any and all future wagers:o

mclem10011 03-15-2008 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
Thank you for this. People have very short, selective memories. I realize it's Derby time, so sanity is thrown away, but this thread really take sthe cake. I'll admit, I'm just a dumb gambler, but to me it looked like he wasn't comfortable. Whether he is sick, hated rating, hated the track, Stevie Wonder could see that the real War Pass did not show up today.

Obviously going into this season, the big question was War Pass negotiating 10 furlongs. That question remains and after today, who knows if it will ever be answered. But I think we can all agree War pass has a lot of quality to him. Is he unbeatable, of course not and no one ever said he was. I just wonder if back in '94 people were talking about Holy Bull in this light after the Fountain of Youth. I'm not comparing the 2, but this is a pretty similar to what happened that day and if memory serves me right, he vindicated himself a few weeks later.
That about sums it up folks, nicely put.

hoovesupsideyourhead 03-15-2008 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPK
Good luck on those.

Rockport Harbour cured me of any and all future wagers:o
barbero tc wager got me good....

GPK 03-15-2008 09:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead
barbero tc wager got me good....

I remember you telling me about him that year.

Bobby Fischer 03-15-2008 09:18 PM
It's bad luck.

War Pass was supposed to fail because of his limitations in the Wood or the Derby. I wanted that money. Not lose because of gate/trip/traffic etc issues at 8.5 furlongs.

Cal loses too soon on turf, Indian Blessing loses "too soon" , now War Pass loses "too soon" there isn't really a fan favorite in this crop who I can count on losing for me at this stage. The losing fan favorite is the major element that a player can extend his profit beyond the 20% grind. Bad luck today.

hockey2315 03-15-2008 09:21 PM
I agree, Bobby. . . This was not a good thing for those planning on playing against WP in the Derby. . .

Danzig 03-15-2008 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by GPK
MN....if there is ever a track you HAVE to take that into consideration, its TBD.
when they talked about the track make up, the amount of sand..i thought Uh-Oh.
i think the achilles heel exhibited by war pass today was exposed by a variety of factors all coming together at once, showing once again why they RACE-not just pass the entry box.

kentuckyrosesinmay 03-15-2008 09:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 31lengths
Not sure about how WP felt however Zito was right in front of us after the race and clearly said " what were you doing?" I thought it was to Cornelio V but someone else said that he was yelling at John V. Either way, he was animated and agitated. Chuck and T.C. thought maybe a breathing problem.
That would make sense because if the horse had a fever, then he very well may could of had a lung infection. If he didn't displace, and it is a breathing problem not due to sickness, the horse is done.

I'll with hold judgement about how talented the horse is for now.

Hickory Hill Hoff 03-15-2008 09:35 PM
Was out all day, stop by the local watering hole for dinner and some guy is yelling to me; "The bridge jumpers were out today, another 1-20 shot goes down in flames!" Just watch the replay...sick, rough trip, may have not liked the track.....all equal = throw out race. Hope he didn't get hurt, but this has opened the door for all the "slow horses" on the derby trail. At least Georgie Boy stepped up to the plate today. Been one confusing derby trail of '08!

Danzig 03-15-2008 09:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept
For race fans with stunningly short memories...

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ory?id=2017316
he immediately comes to mind for me when a heavy favorite fails to live up to expectations...

on a related(oaklawn) note, sierra sunset flattered himself, as well as denis of cork, with a win today in hot springs.

Danzig 03-15-2008 09:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hickory Hill Hoff
Was out all day, stop by the local watering hole for dinner and some guy is yelling to me; "The bridge jumpers were out today, another 1-20 shot goes down in flames!" Just watch the replay...sick, rough trip, may have not liked the track.....all equal - throw out race. Hope he didn't get hurt, but this has opened the door for all the "slow horses" on the derby trail. At least Georgie Boy stepped up to the plate today. Been one confusing derby trail of '08!
at least i got a few rttr points today.

kentuckyrosesinmay 03-15-2008 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
he immediately comes to mind for me when a heavy favorite fails to live up to expectations...

on a related(oaklawn) note, sierra sunset flattered himself, as well as denis of cork, with a win today in hot springs.
Nice hoss on the improve...

Still nowhere near the top group though.

Hickory Hill Hoff 03-15-2008 09:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig
at least i got a few rttr points today.
Liking this guy more and more! :)


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