he may be so despondent, i wouldn't be surprised if he retired.

Hoss hearing that would put anyone back in their seat

I highly doubt that Zito would run a horse that just had a fever a week ago, I just don't see him operating that way.

I'm surprised that the announcement hasn't been made yet. It will be before the weekend is up. He's done.

I may be wrong,but didn't this same thing happen to Commentator a few years back at Gulfstream?? Zito brought him back in a cheap 65 k stake at Aqueduct on the inner,then he went to Gulf,was the talk of the town,and finished dead last???...

Unless the horse is physically hurt, I would be shocked if they tossed out a KY Derby bid. These come along rarely for folks and when you get a runner, the retirement factors in only with serious injury or its post-Triple Crown.

Must be a different horse. Commentator has never run at Aqueduct and he's 2 for 3 at Gulfstream Park with a 7th place finish out of 12 horses in the Hal Hope Handicap on January 5, 2005.

According to the owner that's exactly what they did.

http://www.drf.com/news/article/93015.html Paragraph four

Okay,I was mistaken.But I think the race before the Hal's Hope is the one I was thinking of,I thought it was at Aqueduct,where was it at?

Zito did nothing wrong with the way he handled Bellamy Road.

As for what LaPenta said after the race - I ignore that type of stuff. The horse is a very valuable animal - and if he they weren't 100% confident he was ok on race day - he wouldn't have run.

ask lukas about landaluce or gary jones about lakeway.

La Penta acts like he's the trainer so I would guess he's the guy that said run him.

As much as you think it is right to ignore what LaPenta had to say, people who read your last sentence should, by a factor of 10, ask the question, how the hell do you know that?

Of course you don't know. The truth is nether does Zito. And it is far from uimpossible that the need to run the colt and stay on schedule outweighed any concerns about minor conditioning issues.

Frankly, I'm curious under what conditions you think a horse IS NOT adversely affected by a fever a few days prior to his race.

Debating whether or not the horse was healthy is a moot debate. The question is now - what next?

If you think they would risk such a valuable animal that wasn't right - just to keep him on their originally planned prep schedule - all I can do is disagree.

The rumor was around that he was sick for a day and a half - the 59th minute of the Roger Stein show Saturday morning was the only place I'm aware of that got the rumor out to the betting public - but it was out.

Maybe I am just naive - but if you aren't 100% sure that the horse is ok, you scratch and train up to the Wood.

You don't put your valuable horse in a position to embarass himself or worse, hurt himself.

That depends on how the horse is. We aren't going to get anywhere debating that either.

Rarely have I seen such inane reaction to an off performance. I suppose it's because we get so few starts from the classic-campaigning runners, but some of what's been written is so outlandish that it's hard to believe.

People claim they're fans of racing... Well if they are, then they should be well aware that horses lose. They have off performances and toss clunkers. They run through issues like spiked fevers and stay on schedule for races and get beat because they aren't 100% that day.

No one recalls Holy Bull being beaten 24 lengths in the Fountain of Youth? Afleet Alex' Rebel? Real Quiet's Golden Gate Derby? Obviously not because the same ridiculous comments that are sprinkled throughout this thread, and the laughable 'oh my gosh' thread, were said about those 3 year olds, Croll, Ritchey and Baffert at the time.

It could be that we've been conditioned to think that an off effort means a soon-to-be-discovered hidden problem and immediate retirement because connections don't work through issues anymore. And while everyone is entitled to offer their opinion on the topic, some degree of reasonable and rational reaction coupled with a dash of historical perspective is highly suggested.

We have had so many taken away from us that you are right, we are conditioned, and rightful so, that when a performance like that happens, bon voyage.

Fun ahead on the Derby trail..................
 

Right on Steve, well said !!!!!!!!!!! I think this just makes the workouts and preps that much more valuable going forward. The handicapping challenge between now and May 3rd just got totally blown up. Maybe this is an average group but I believe there will be great value and betting opportunities if you can make the right choice. War Pass fans can toss the race and War Pass bashers feel vindicated. Great stuff ahead!!!!!!!

Well, that's what I mean. What's next in terms of how is the horse, how do they react to yesterday's performance etc.

Steve, you left out the most important point which is this horse was 1-20.

1-20 is an awful lot of historical perspective. So much so, perhaps, that even the most expert among us would be hard pressed to recall the last undefeated 2 yo champ who went down badly in an important prep race at that kind of price. Add to that the extra flavoring of the horse being off for a day or two due to fever or whatever.

That is the correct perspective? Maybe not. Then again, ....

Yes, I remember Holy Bull and Real Quiet. And, like a lot of people, I remember Spectacular Bid's Belmont and Secretariat's Wood where they were both compromised by condition issues. Don't you think Bid's and Secretariat's people felt pressure to run despite being less than 100%?

But you are right; they are not machines and they are not always going to be 100%. The owner and trainer can run their horse whenever and however they choose.

When you go down at 1-20 as the undefeated 2 yo champ when perhaps, or even likely, not 100%, there is going to be a lot of elbow room in that reuinion tour.

I remember The Holy Bull incident also, flipping his palate in the FOY. He was written off in the Florida Derby for those that bet him it was a nice play back...

It's one race for WP, horses are not machines. Everyone is entitled to a bad day, however looking back at the past p's 2 nights ago I noticed other than the one monster slop effort around 2 turns for WP one could have questioned is he at his best at racing at a route or 2 turns more specifically. Another was the question is he as good at 3 as he was at 2? I guess the other question will now arrise is he a need to lead type ie. War Emblem
All questions that may help his odds if he continues on the TC trail.

The benefit of hindsight I guess, I just think of kicking myself for atleast not taking him on yesterday with Big Truck who I thought would have filled the exacta spot...7/1 on a horse that ran big in the prep, with Coa/Tagg running the show was a bad miss.

Couldn't have his connections switched races and waited a week to run in the Florida Derby if there was any chance that War Pass was 100%? We try to find every excuse when a good animal like this one gets soundly defeated, bottom line' something was wrong...anyone can see that. It's not the end of the world, unless he's really hurt bad. On to the next prep for the rest.....we're (sorry for the pun) "beating a dead horse" with this race effort.

As GPK noted, and as I've personally witnessed in horses shipping down to Tampa from DEL and PHA, sometimes they just don't take to the surface there the first time they run. With that, and the fever, and not getting the lead, there's more than enough reason for a poor performance.

On the other hand, I understand why people are shocked, and I'm not going to call anyone's opinion ridiculous. As I'm sure I've heard you say on your show, Steve, the great ones overcome adversity.

So maybe War Pass isn't as good as some of the champions to which he's been compared. We hear overblown comparisons every year. Or maybe he is a great horse who'll have one clunker to darken his PPs. Or maybe he's just a very good horse who can still win the Kentucky Derby. There's still plenty of time before the Derby to find out.

As far as LaPenta goes, they were basically giving him the trophy before the race. Simon Bray thanked him for coming to Tampa(I guess thanking him for WP racing on TVG, very strange). I think he had his tail between is legs and tried coming up with a lame excused. As far as the horse goes, for the first time he didn't have a perfect trip. Got slammed out of the gate and never looked comfortable out there. Hopefully for the WP camp they could turn it into a learning experience. I think the race is a toss and if you still like him, maybe you will get a price on him in the wood.

some have compared him to slew, due to his running style.

On the other hand, he was a brilliant 2 yr old with a perfect record culminating with a demolishing run in the BC Juvenile. It is hard to maintain or even top the expectations that have been behooved upon him. Sooner than later this day had to come, it's hard being perfect.

See...even the best thoroughbred writers and handicappers can be wrong. Any horse whether "slow" or "fast" can be beaten anytime, no matter how much you watch races or study them. Luck does play a part, but at 1-20 anyone could see that this was a very good horse...even Stevie Wonder! :D

exactly. i think writers compare horses that we see today to stars of the past, as how else would many know what they were talking about? seattle slew was pretty much a household name. so if you want your readers to know that this horse was brilliant at two, and likes to run up front-would you toss out some no name to compare him to?
but then some jerk their knees, and go off the deep end. how dare he compare him to slew?! sigh

apparently the only two very good horses we've ever had are colin one hundred years ago and personal ensign.

Well, I'm glad of that :rolleyes: Just about everyone thought he was a "lock" to win yesterday versus that group (ie. 1-20) and there are some that don't think he's such a "good" horse after that effort...just look at some of the post.
I'm not one, something was wrong with him yesterday....so I'm not dismissing him yet. Funny though, how other 3 yr.olds didn't match up to him before yesterday's race..... I think the playing field is level now after that effort.

Many racing fans are too quick to make outlandish judgements on horses too quickly, either positive or negative. Toss the race out and see if he comes back with a better performance. TVG was gushing before the race, saying WP was the leader of the sport. I guess they forgot about a horse named Curlin. If there was even a hint of illness in the horse he shouldn't have been running. Let's see if he will be given the chance to erase this performance.

Well said Mike :) the first line in your statement...sums it up on any horses.

Okay. Fine. You're right. He didn't compare TALENT. Forget what I said about overblown comparisons. It's not the point of my original post, it's dicta, and not worth debating.

I also remember Afleet Alex going to his nose in the stretch of the Preakness, but he overcame that adversity.
why is it ridiculous to feel that this horse may not in the league with the horses that you've mentioned? I was under the impression that War Pass still had something to prove. Personally until I see a 2 turn route on a fast track against top competition, I hold a question mark in my mind. It seems that many have already made up their minds that he's untouchable.