"Look at Her Run"
 

What a Belmont. I liked Rags from the time of entry and she did not disappoint.
Yes, I got the sick feeling at the start and was screamin at the finish. The dog is now avoiding me.

you too huh? what is it with dogs, you start yelling, they automatically assume it's at them...such a guilt complex!

Rags had about the same trip as Curlin, except for stumbling at the start and racing wider.

Holy Roman Emperor was a flukey deal where he replaced a stallion that already had a huge and strong group of mare booked. Hard Spun's pedigree while nice is not strong enough to warrant early retirement without major wins. I'm sure Darley wants him to run again because he needs to win something.

What else do you want? The psycho chinese guy from the Artax race?

For those comparing Beyers to determine where she belong on the list of all-time greats please remember that Beyer speed figures measure speed and speed only. They do not measure heart, and they do not measure class, for which Rags to Riches has both.

It's amazing -- we see an awesome horse race, with two classy, fast and amazing individuals battle head-and-head down the stretch, and already the naysayers and dissenters are out in force about her place in history.

To me, history is winning a classic horse race. Check. (Belmont Stakes..and Oaks)

To me, history is overcoming obstacles. Check (wide-trip).

And finally, history is doing something unusual, extraordinary, out-of-the-norm..double check (A filly beats the boys, and answers a classy foes every attempt at the lead).

Is she the greatest of all time? Can't say yes or no to that, but I can say she was the greatest today.

yeah, it was a flukey deal.

of course porter doesn't have a done deal, it was supposed to be settled after the belmont today. altho i'm sure they still buy his rights, they just got them cheaper.

i think she showed tremendous courage, every time curlin came at her, she turned him back.
it'd be nice if those kind of entries happened more often. i think people are surprised when fillies do so well, because they are under the false assumption that fillies can't compete on that level, when those of us who follow this sport know it happens quite often--albeit overseas.

curlin showed that kind of grit in the preakness, and tried his heart out today. but the filly was a bit better.

it was a great race, very exciting. it's one to remember for sure.

why are you a naysayer to objectively analyzed a race and a horses ability? I think if somone just jumps on the bandwagon and say a horse is great without looking at all the context that is the real disservice.

You very well could be right...

I'll let everyone know where I stand when I've had the time to carefully study the replays and result charts for every other dirt race on the card.

Look, I said she'd win the Kentucky Oaks after I saw her break her maiden earlier in the year--and was very under the radar.

I argued with a few people here, mainly MisterB, that she absolutley belonged in the race...

She basically ran her race today.....and her race was good enough to beat Curlin and Hard Spun at 12 furlongs.

Does that make her an all-time great filly? You obviously BADLY misunderstood the point I made about her figures---as the point flattered her.

I'm certainly not willing to compare her to Ruffian or the greatest ever, Kincsem but she certainly has shown almost unlimited potential...we'll see how she does against older and then comparisons may or may not be appropriate!

enough with the Kincsem please.

I've seen some spectacular fillies.....she's every bit as dominant as any of them have been in their own division...but there is nothing else in her own division (as an example, wide trip Cotton Blossom chugged home in the Acorn today) --- and, we all know that there are only three real good males in the 3-year-old crop...

They being Curlin, Street Sense, and Hard Spun --- one of them didn't show up for the race today, the other has VERY suspect breeding for 12 furlongs and has done a lot in a short amount of time, the other consistantly runs "fast early-slow late" race shapes...and was suspect at this distance because of that.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Rags To Riches performance....but, I've seen some really outstanding fillies before...and she still needs to develop and improve to reach their level.

People also shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the 12 furlong distance of the Belmont was totally to her benefit. Is she an all-time great filly at a 12 furlong distance? I don't know....but, at that distance anyway, she's probably as good as any I've ever seen.

Why? She's the standard by which I judge all fillies and mares, you can agree or disagree but my opinion is as valid as your's!

Very Good point Chuck!!

I agree, just saying she appears to have that kind of potential, only time will determine whether she realizes it!

How in the world can you compare a Hungarian filly who raced in the 1800's to modern horses? It is not an opinion thing but a relevance thing.

No doubt about it.

A lot of the very good fillies I've seen through the years have never had the chance to run against males--in the type of race that was totally to their benefit.

If anyone remembers back to 1992, a 3-year-old filly named Jolypha came over from Europe...she ran 3rd in the Breeders Cup Classic in her dirt debut, losing to only A. P. Indy (R2R's sire) and Pleasant Tap (Tiago's sire)

I just hope that people don't lose sight of the fact that Rags to Riches was much better suited for a race like the Belmont....than her other main rivals in there. Pletcher would have been a fool to not run her....and to his credit, he's no fool.

Great point, for me it was about midstretch when I realized she was going to do this thing and the crowd started going crazy!!

It was certainly a very exciting race.

However, it's the fan in me that makes me want to hang around here now and try to convince people from getting carried away at considering her an all-time great filly...off the basis of winning a race that her past form and pedigree suggested she was more than capable of winning.

yeah, i remember jolypha. need more like her!

i think right now everyone is enjoying having seen a great race.
not so sure that anyone really knows where she fits in historically at this point! too much racing left to do.

Perhaps you're right.

Obviously we disagree...!

I don't know if she's an all time great filly, but it's a damned impressive feat for a filly to win the Belmont. That much I know...

And I was NOT a believer before the Oaks. Having witnessed both performances in person, she's the real deal.

Pletcher sad the filly may race against the boys this summer, in either the Haskell Invitational at Monmouth Park of the Travers at Saratoga. He also mentioned two top filly races as possibilities, the Coaching Club American Oaks and the Alabama.

"It's way too premature to make a decision right this second," he said. "We have to let this settle. And first and foremost, we have to see how the filly comes out."

Ever see her run? Ever see a chart of one of her races? Ever talk to someone that saw her in person? It is like comparing real things to a ghost.

I've seen it all after watching the replay...

Pletcher showed some emotion and excitement!

Look, I've studied racing history as a hobby for 30 years, I know more about Kincsem than most folks know about Secretariat...you are entitled to your opinion but I see no reason to belittle mine. the horse was 54-54 racing males all over Europe and carried up to 168 pounds, say what you will...I believe she was the best!

Mr. Damper man now appears.

Folks, that was a hell of an exciting race but it was run like a Euro turf race. 6f in 1:15 1/5 ... The stretch was incredible and I thought Curlin did a great job of fighting back and our filly put it right back in his face. This race was a great competition. But it was not a fantastic physical feat. Its very clear both of these horses can run all day long and when the first part of the race is walked through...

It was a great race for horseracing sake though. And if these two happen too meet again against Invasor in the BCC after they have improved even more, joining Street Sense, then we will have seen heaven. I would also like to see how Papi Chullo progresses after today and a new crew. That was a great run today.

What a beautiful thing to see...

Check it out folks, she got the NY Times all warm and fuzzy.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/10/sp...=1&oref=slogin

i'll mostly agree with you on this. as you know, i thought she'd be good enough to win the derby when you had me watch her maiden win, so i've been a huge fan of this filly since then, but now i dont think all the talk of her being so great is quite warranted yet.

while you cite figures and such validating her belonging in the belmont, i've felt all along that she was the best 3yo in this country, male or female. frankly, i felt the way the race setup, she really should have won by more than she did.

as much as i like her, i wouldnt put her near the level of an inside information or lakeway (prior to all her problems) yet!

i dont buy this curlin being a freak thing either. he's really good, but i think the preakness was somewhat fraudulent, and curlin's success is bolstered by the lack of depth in this crop. he's a really nice horse, and he's going to win more races, but there is no way his preakness was one of the best ever run, let alone the best.

Yeah but who'd she beat?... (ducks tomatoes) Kidding! Just teasing Somer. You know I know your fandom of Kincsem from way back. Anybody done a writeup on her? Her achievements merit more attention.

Chris (SCC) and I did several write-ups on her. There are books written about her and a race track named after her!
http://www.thoroughbredchampions.com...es/kincsem.htm

I have no doubt that all that is true but it is like apples and oranges. Maybe her trainer was the Hungarian juice trainer of the day?

Yeah, raced carrying 168 pounds over 12 furlongs and won easily...Scott Lake doesn't have juice that good even today!