Originally Posted by LARHAGE (Post 744398)

Truly friendship doesn't make me lose objectivity, I'm just saying I would have rather of had the year Gomez had as a rider last year than Ramon, simple as that.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind (Post 744388)

I'll give you an analogy that you might find reasonably fair...


If I came here and said Nick Zito deserved the Trainer of the Year over Todd because he came really close in many big races, won his share, and didn't have NEARLY the kind of stock, or the numbers, that Todd has, people would say I was crazily defending a friend.....and they would be right. They would not say I didn't necessarily make some fair points....but that my argument in its entirity was unsound and I was only making it because Nick is my close friend.

They would be right.

For the internet record....this was analogy....I don't believe what I was suggesting. Todd and Jerry Hollendorfer were the only two deserving candidates.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind (Post 744400)

Riding less horses and making as much money? Understandable. However, does that mean he should be recognized as the Eclipse award winning rider?

You should REALLY think about that before answering.

Originally Posted by LARHAGE (Post 744401)

I'm just a little confused Andy, are you implying that Ramon just didn't have the stock? God knows he had the numbers, and plenty of backing. I also thought this trainer category was completely skewed, Baffert and Shirreffs had no business being nominated, I would have put Hollendorfer and Mott for the record, both won major races, but yeah, how could you deny Pletcher with a Derby and 3 Breeders Cup races? I'm not trying to be difficult, just not sure what the analogy is, I guess I don't see this big advantage that Garrett apparently is supposed to have over Ramon, where and when, and from whom?

Originally Posted by LARHAGE (Post 744402)

Not if they were just everyday races, but the races he happened to win? Yes, I guess I put a lot of stock in rising to the occasion.

Originally Posted by eajinabi (Post 744406)

Take Ramon out of NYRA circuit and have him follow the same journey, Johnny V, Gomez, Castellano, Desormaux, Leparoux does throughout the year and you will quickly see how great of an average jockey he is. I believe last year he was 1 or 2 for 22 mounts at gulfstream last year.

Originally Posted by eajinabi (Post 744406)

Take Ramon out of NYRA circuit and have him follow the same journey, Johnny V, Gomez, Castellano, Desormaux, Leparoux does throughout the year and you will quickly see how great of an average jockey he is. I believe last year he was 1 or 2 for 22 mounts at gulfstream last year.

Originally Posted by eajinabi (Post 744406)

Take Ramon out of NYRA circuit and have him follow the same journey, Johnny V, Gomez, Castellano, Desormaux, Leparoux does throughout the year and you will quickly see how great of an average jockey he is. I believe last year he was 1 or 2 for 22 mounts at gulfstream last year.

Originally Posted by merasmag (Post 744418)

i don't wanna be accused of posting too late on this thread for the children to not have time to reply so i will reiterate what i said 27 hours ago...to judge who is more deserving of the eclipse you just need to evaluate who moves their horselets(TM) up more
over gogo...that is ramon
over everyone...that is pval

Originally Posted by LARHAGE (Post 744273)

Lets not even compare each riders big wins last year, don't embarass yourself. I'll give you Ramon rides many more winners, but also many more horses, like 700 a year more, yet barely beats him in earnings, you know why? One wins the big races, one not so much.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind (Post 744382)

Let me ask you a question ( and I personally like Garrett as well as you ), do you think a jockey should be rewarded for riding pretty much only for certain outfits, mostly high profile, and in big races, while intentionally not riding for many cheaper outfits and in smaller pursed races over one that rides every day, in many races a day, often very cheap races ( in purse and quality ), for anybody and everybody, while forming no allegiances to any big outfits....and beats the former rider for specific riding titles?

Let me add something else....Ramon Dominguez rode NO HORSE in the Cigar Mile because he knew the connections of Haynesfield and a Dutrow longshot both wanted him, he had ridden both in their prior races, and he didn't want to be unfair to either participant. Do you think, and be honest, that Garrett would have done the same thing? No, this doesn't play into an Eclipse award discussion, save that perhaps Haynesfield would have won the Cigar ( surely Ramon would have chosen him ), and Ramon would have won another Grade 1 and more money.

Originally Posted by NTamm1215 (Post 744407)

Leparoux and Desormeaux really schooled him at Belmont this fall too.

Originally Posted by stonegossard (Post 744559)

Obviosuly you have some love affair with Gomez. What exactly does "big wins" have to do with who is a better rider? One guy wins a ton of races, one guy doesn't. Dominguez rides in a much tougher colony in NY then what Gomez competes against in horrible So-Cal. Winning the "big races" is such a cop out in this discussion. It's like if a horse wins The Dubai Classic and gets a huge check, is that horse better than a horse with less earnings but more wins? Not necessarily.

Stick to talking about how pretty horse colors are. Leave the actual racing discussions to people who have a clue.

Originally Posted by LARHAGE (Post 744595)

I'd expect this response from you, of course, I have a love affair, that explains it, you have dreams of Ramon windmill whipping you on your ass? The So. Cal jockey colony is vastly superior to the Aqueduct inner, and your analgogy
of the Dubai World Cup as some sort of implication that Gomez only won one big race is ridiculous, as far as me thinking winning major races throughout the year trumping riding multiple winners in cheap claiming races, well your right, I do, your entitled to your opinion, I am mine, sex has nothing to do with
mine.

Originally Posted by LARHAGE (Post 744595)

I'd expect this response from you, of course, I have a love affair, that explains it, you have dreams of Ramon windmill whipping you on your ass? The So. Cal jockey colony is vastly superior to the Aqueduct inner, and your analgogy
of the Dubai World Cup as some sort of implication that Gomez only won one big race is ridiculous, as far as me thinking winning major races throughout the year trumping riding multiple winners in cheap claiming races, well your right, I do, your entitled to your opinion, I am mine, sex has nothing to do with
mine.

Originally Posted by Dahoss (Post 744601)

You keep going back to the inner track arguement as if Dominguez is just an inner track phenom. Prior to Velazquez winning Saratoga this year, Dominguez had won 9 straight riding titles at the NYRA tracks.

From April to November NYRA has the most competitive jockey colony in the entire country. And Dominguez dominates them all and has for years.