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-   -   Big Brown - Overrated? (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22587)

slotdirt 05-19-2008 03:33 PM
Wasn't Invasor like an October foal?

slotdirt 05-19-2008 03:35 PM
I was wrong, he was born in August, Bernardini in March. He had about seven months on Bernardini when they met.

smuthg 05-19-2008 03:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArlJim78
none of this is fair or important, and its all subjective for the most part. its just the kind of stuff we pass the time with on forums like this.
agreed...

alysheba4 05-19-2008 03:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ateamstupid
That's the way I'd put it, although the top two are interchangeable for me.
......scav had it right.

knickslions2 05-19-2008 03:46 PM
I guess brown has to win the Belmont by 40 lengths and somehow post a beyer of 120 to get any respect. Nobody has come close to him yet. He won the Derby out of the 20th post. Toyed with the Preakness yet still dumbass Beyer doesn't like him. The Triple Crown is so hard to win especially today. If he does it he is a super horse.

ateamstupid 05-19-2008 03:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by alysheba4
......scav had it right.
:rolleyes: That's always the preface to a strong argument.

King Glorious 05-19-2008 04:33 PM
For the last five years only, I'd go with:

3yo's only, non-sprinters

1-Smarty Jones
2-Bernardini
3-Curlin
4-Big Brown
5-Lion Heart
6-Afleet Alex
7-Barbaro
8-Street Sense
9-Flower Alley
10-Birdstone

blackthroatedwind 05-19-2008 04:35 PM
Lion Heart?

Oy vey.

Payson Dave 05-19-2008 04:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
Lion Heart?

Oy vey.

my yiddish is poor....is "oy vey" kinda like "oh my"?

King Glorious 05-19-2008 04:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind
Lion Heart?

Oy vey.
I already can invision all of the responses to that. I wish he hadn't broken down in the Travers because after that half in 49 and change, I have no doubt he would have lasted the 10f and then this conversation would be a whole lot different if he was a Haskell/Travers winner and a Derby runner-up.

MLC 05-19-2008 05:03 PM
No Invasor?

MLC 05-19-2008 05:04 PM
Sorry, King, I just noticed "3 years old only".

justindew 05-19-2008 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious
For the last five years only, I'd go with:

3yo's only, non-sprinters

1-Smarty Jones
2-Bernardini
3-Curlin
4-Big Brown
5-Lion Heart
6-Afleet Alex
7-Barbaro
8-Street Sense
9-Flower Alley
10-Birdstone
Making this list without Casino Drive is criminal.

If we go back eight years, I would like to see Fusaichi Pegasus and Sunday Break get their props.

The Indomitable DrugS 05-19-2008 05:53 PM
Sunday Break probably isn't one of the 1,800 best Japanese bred horses to race in the last eight years... so he was a fairly clever choice.

However, Fu Peg was a KEE July Select sales topper - raced only in America - and his lone connection with Japan was his owner. Poor choice. Fusaichi Samurai might have been better.

Ski Captain being the most underrated dirt horse to race in America in the 90's might have been better played.

justindew 05-19-2008 05:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Sunday Break probably isn't one of the 1,800 best Japanese bred horses to race in the last eight years... so he was a fairly clever choice.

However, Fu Peg was a KEE July Select sales topper - raced only in America - and his lone connection with Japan was his owner. Poor choice. Fusaichi Samurai might have been better.

Ski Captain being the most underrated dirt horse to race in America in the 90's might have been better played.
Sunday Break placed in the Grade I Wood Menorial and the Grade I Belmont.

Had Drysdale not treated him with kid gloves, he would have been more fit for the Wood, would have made the KY Derby field, and would have run down War Emblem.





Lest anyone think I am serious, I'm not. It's sad that I need to say this.

Split Rock 05-19-2008 09:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SniperSB23
Figured I'd pick the two most overhyped horses of the past several years to compare Big Brown to in hopes that the ridiculous overhyping of this horse to the superlative degree stops.

LITF
103, 109, 102, 105, 105, 110

Bernardini
68, 90, 104, 113, 114, 116 (if you exclude his first race then his next figure was 117)

Big Brown
90, 106, 106, 109, 100, ???

So he doesn't even compare favorably with the last two overhyped horses and people want to compare him to Secretariat, Seattle Slew, and Spectacular Bid?
so?

blackthroatedwind 05-19-2008 09:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Split Rock
so?

Yes, why allow reasonable thinking to get in the way of your myopic view.

NTamm1215 05-19-2008 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by King Glorious
For the last five years only, I'd go with:

3yo's only, non-sprinters

1-Smarty Jones
2-Bernardini
3-Curlin
4-Big Brown
5-Lion Heart
6-Afleet Alex
7-Barbaro
8-Street Sense
9-Flower Alley
10-Birdstone
On Sesame Street they used to play a game called "One of these things is not like the other." I played it with your list and came up with a couple of interesting tidbits. You have two horses who actually beat older horses in their 3YO campaigns and one did it twice. You have neither of them on top. I'm not even Jewish but oy vey.

Maybe I just wasn't much of a Smarty Jones guy. I have a hard time putting him ahead of #s 2-8 on your list save Lion Heart and remember that he was only 1-1 against Birdstone.

NT

miraja2 05-19-2008 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by knickslions2
I guess brown has to win the Belmont by 40 lengths and somehow post a beyer of 120 to get any respect. Nobody has come close to him yet. He won the Derby out of the 20th post. Toyed with the Preakness yet still dumbass Beyer doesn't like him. The Triple Crown is so hard to win especially today. If he does it he is a super horse.
What do you mean....somehow?

I'm assuming that you do realize that once upon a time, really good horses somehow managed to run numbers in the 120s relatively often.
Easy Goer, for example, ran a 120 or better four times in his 3yo campaign.


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