Of course, there have of course been a few cases where, when a stallion does well, they are relocated out of NY. Catienus attracted a lot of attention when he stood in NY, and had a couple of runners out there in his first crop (with a maiden running 3rd in the Bemont Stakes). There was a lot of back and forth as to whether or not he would stay in NY for the next season, and I would some people here know what went on with that decision and what was behind it.

City Zip was another, and while he became an attractive commodity, what was also going on was that the farm where he stood was being sold, so I am not sure which came first -- the chicken or the egg, so to speak.

NY stallions can be like any others, except the top tier, high demand stallions. There can be deals, foal shares, discounted breedings, etc. However, I don't think this is a function of it being NY, but more it being a function of the industry in general. Of course you are not going to see any deals floating around on AP Indy, LOL.

The "breed-back" rules are intended to allow the system to have integrity, and to add value. The same could be said for the step level of NY award money.

Eric

That can be true of stallions anywhere. It depends on a number of things including breeding multiple mares, return customers, demand for the stallion etc.

Deal making occurs at all levels.
Remember that the $20k stallion is royalty in NY. In KY he's a "moderate" price point. I'm sure that there are a few breeders in NY who would support a higher end stallion but "a few" isn't really enough to make it worth it. With the volume of mares available in KY and only a handful of NY breeders vowing to commit to a stallion who is not especially expensive in KY, it's not a great deal.

the $20k stallion in NY doesnt currently exist. But the points that were made above are true and the fact is that non 1st year stallion at that level is usually a pretty negotiable price

Mutakddim, Petionville, Northern Afleet, Honour and Glory, Sir Cherokee

Mutakddim is a really good racehorse sire as is Petionville but neither are real commercial. They wuld be great in NY. I am not a big fan of Northern Afleet and I dont think he is a good fit as a KY stallion, more of regional type. Honour and Glory is a decent sire who ould also be better making NYBreds. I like Sir Cherokee as a sire but I dont know if he will get a fair shake in KY. I always considered Cape Town as an ideal NY type sire since he is pretty versitile but he has fertility issues

it does sound bizarre. and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it were true.

I have to presume you talking 20th Century, or post-WWII, or something like that. One of the greatest pre-Civil War horses, in the days of 4 mile heat races, was the New York-bred American Eclipse, who also stood in NY, with his son Medoc, both of whom became leading US sires.

Mutakddim could be a very good sire if he had better sponsorship..Moving him to NY with more crappy mares want help.

Getting a Straightman to NY would be great but I don't see him leaving Fla anytime soon.

Yeah I watched a reenactment of some of his races on The History Channel 5: The Ocho a few weeks ago. Outstanding horse.

The first Belmont was won by a NY bred filly, Ruthless but she hardly has an impact on todays breed.

In the above post about $20k stallions in NY, I should have said "a $20k stallion would be royalty in NY. I agree about Mutakkdim. He's a very underrated horse.

There was a Group 1 winning horse in Europe in the 90's named Hamas. He was sired by Danzig and out of the legendary broodmare Fall Aspen.

While a giant bust at stud, interestingly enough, the most accomplished son of Hamas so far is Istanbul horse of the year Akindayim. He's won over 20 races and made what amounts to $950,000. Akindayim races are on YouTube - including his win in the Group 1 Sultan Mehmet The Conqueror Cup.

The only real good horse I ever remember Mutakddim siring was Lady Tak, and she was only a $7,500 yearling.

The mares he gets now are NY level mares and he would probably wind up with better mares there

Mutakddim is a good All-Weather sire.

He would be better off in a state with all-weather tracks.

Was Lady Tak the one that upset Dream Supreme at the spa?

The sire thing, Mutakddim has good, solid numbers across the board. I'm still excited about Golden Missile in NY.

She produced Timber Country - no for Woodman. Really, she has to be considered one of the greatest broodmares ever. She's the dam of...

* Northern Apsen (Grade 1 winner in America, Gr 2 winner in Europe)

* Elle Seule (Group 2 winner in France. Dam of 2 Gr 1 winners)

* Mazzacano (Gr 3 winner, 2nd in Gr 1)

* Colorado Dancer (Gr 2 winner, dam of the great Dubai Millennium)

* Hamas (Gr 1 winner)

* Fort Wood (Gr 1 winner. Sire of Horse Chestnut)

* Timber Country (Won GR 1 BC Juvenile and Preakness)

* Prince of Thieves (3rd in the Kentucky Derby)

* Bianconi (Gr 2 winner)



She had an explosive turn move for a speed miler type horse - I know she won both the Test and Ballerina at Saratoga - but I think she actually ran a 23 flat 3rd quarter when she won the Test...it probably is the fastest 3rd quarter this decade by any horse in a 7f furlong Saratoga race.

I'm not sure if her Ballerina win was Travers day or not....could have been the day after the Travers maybe.