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-   -   Derby field, where they should go, Preakness possibles (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42219)

pweizer 05-08-2011 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew (Post 775371)
Deal.

Thanks for the bet. It looks like we will get a full field of 14 for the Preakness. There will then be lots of others waiting in the wings for a shot at Belmont.

We don't know what track conditions will be, what racing luck he will have, even if he can stay healthy until June. There is a reason we have not had a Triple Crown winner since 1978.

Animal Kingdom may turn out to be the second coming of Affirmed. But since the horse has only five lifetime starts and will now make three starts in five weeks, I like my chances.


Paul

Dunbar 05-08-2011 08:42 PM

The Greek is offering 6.9-1 that there will be a TC:

Will there be a 2011 Triple Crown winner
4001 Yes +690
4002 No -1010


5Dimes is offering 3.25-1 on Animal Kingdom winning the Preakness:

Sat 5/21 101 Animal Kingdom wins Preakness +325
6:30PM 102 Field wins Preakness


--Dunbar

justindew 05-08-2011 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dunbar (Post 775375)
The Greek is offering 6.9-1 that there will be a TC:

Will there be a 2011 Triple Crown winner
4001 Yes +690
4002 No -1010


5Dimes is offering 3.25-1 on Animal Kingdom winning the Preakness:

Sat 5/21 101 Animal Kingdom wins Preakness +325
6:30PM 102 Field wins Preakness


--Dunbar

I am a certified moron.

justindew 05-08-2011 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pweizer (Post 775374)
Thanks for the bet. It looks like we will get a full field of 14 for the Preakness. There will then be lots of others waiting in the wings for a shot at Belmont.

We don't know what track conditions will be, what racing luck he will have, even if he can stay healthy until June. There is a reason we have not had a Triple Crown winner since 1978.

Animal Kingdom may turn out to be the second coming of Affirmed. But since the horse has only five lifetime starts and will now make three starts in five weeks, I like my chances.


Paul

I made a stupid bet, which I think I will win.

slotdirt 05-08-2011 08:57 PM

What I really want to know is how someone actually moved a horse up off Catalano?

herkhorse 05-08-2011 08:57 PM

put down the mint juleps

_ed_ 05-08-2011 09:34 PM

I definitely think AK is good enough to beat this bunch two more times. My main question is the time between races. I know that's not particularly insightful, and it's probably stating the obvious.

But he had six weeks between the Spiral and the Derby, and now he has just two weeks before the Preakness. So I'm not totally sure he'll be back at his peak and have that same turn of foot at Pimlico.

pointman 05-08-2011 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew (Post 775376)
I am a certified moron.

After tossing a bunch of unwarranted vitriol my way for merely opining the obvious, he now admits that which cannot be denied.

philcski 05-09-2011 12:14 AM

Courier Journal with a good list of Preakness possibles.
http://www.courier-journal.com/inter...eakness-Stakes

Merlinsky 05-09-2011 12:48 AM

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/rac...l-kingdom.aspx

Gotta love (probably unnecessary) drama.

parsixfarms 05-09-2011 08:55 AM

I realize that the conventional wisdom seems to be that a faster pace in the Preakness will only help Animal Kingdom's chances. With the slow pace in the Derby, the race was run like a turf race. That may explain why so many of the turf/synthetic horses seemed to run well on Saturday. If horses like Flashpoint and Dance City join the fray in Baltimore, the pace is almost assured to be much faster, and I'm not sure that a faster pace necessarily helps Animal Kingdom's chances in the Preakness.

slotdirt 05-09-2011 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms (Post 775414)
I realize that the conventional wisdom seems to be that a faster pace in the Preakness will only help Animal Kingdom's chances. With the slow pace in the Derby, the race was run like a turf race. That may explain why so many of the turf/synthetic horses seemed to run well on Saturday. If horses like Flashpoint and Dance City join the fray in Baltimore, the pace is almost assured to be much faster, and I'm not sure that a faster pace necessarily helps Animal Kingdom's chances in the Preakness.

I've been thinking that exact thing. Great comment.

NTamm1215 05-09-2011 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms (Post 775414)
I realize that the conventional wisdom seems to be that a faster pace in the Preakness will only help Animal Kingdom's chances. With the slow pace in the Derby, the race was run like a turf race. That may explain why so many of the turf/synthetic horses seemed to run well on Saturday. If horses like Flashpoint and Dance City join the fray in Baltimore, the pace is almost assured to be much faster, and I'm not sure that a faster pace necessarily helps Animal Kingdom's chances in the Preakness.

I see your point but disagree. One thing that Animal Kingdom always had going for him, even before we found out he'd handle dirt, is that he's very handy. He has won from a stalking position and now won from well off the pace in the two biggest races of his life.

The issue that he would run into in a fast paced race is if JV asks him to stay too close because he's uncomfortable about being too far back. I don't really see that happening because he seems to be the type of horse that can almost be placed anywhere.

blackthroatedwind 05-09-2011 09:10 AM

I'm sorry, now horses handle a surface because of the ( theoretical ) dynamics of a race? OK.....good luck with that one.

Just an aside....this Derby did NOT have a slow pace. It had a pace that was slow for the KY Derby, which usually has a wicked pace, but it was not on the slow side of par. It was a fairly run race and the best horse won.

hockey2315 05-09-2011 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind (Post 775418)
I'm sorry, now horses handle a surface because of the ( theoretical ) dynamics of a race? OK.....good luck with that one.

Just an aside....this Derby did NOT have a slow pace. It had a pace that was slow for the KY Derby, which usually has a wicked pace, but it was not on the slow side of par. It was a fairly run race and the best horse won.

It came back below par on the Moss figures, but I agree with you. Race dynamics didn't seem to affect anyone besides maybe Dialed In.

blackthroatedwind 05-09-2011 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockey2315 (Post 775425)
It came back below par on the Moss figures, but I agree with you. Race dynamics didn't seem to affect anyone besides maybe Dialed In.

There is something VERY strange about the fractions in the routes, at least this weekend, at Churchill.

hockey2315 05-09-2011 09:54 AM

Ya I noticed that too. . .

Kasept 05-09-2011 10:37 AM

PREAKNESS FIELD

Committed:

1. Animal Kingdom
2. Dialed In
3. Shackleford
4. Astrology
5. Concealed Idenity
6. Dance City
7. Flashpoint
8. King Congie
9. Prime Cut
10. Norman Asbjornson
11. Sway Away


Possible

Mr. Commons
Santiva
Saratoga Red


Doubtful

Nehro
Midnight Interlude
The Factor
Mucho Macho Man

Arletta 05-09-2011 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by herkhorse (Post 775379)
put down the mint juleps

I tried one one time.... Talk about disgusting... blech!

parsixfarms 05-09-2011 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NTamm1215 (Post 775416)
I see your point but disagree. One thing that Animal Kingdom always had going for him, even before we found out he'd handle dirt, is that he's very handy. He has won from a stalking position and now won from well off the pace in the two biggest races of his life.

The issue that he would run into in a fast paced race is if JV asks him to stay too close because he's uncomfortable about being too far back. I don't really see that happening because he seems to be the type of horse that can almost be placed anywhere.

I agree with your assessment of some of Animal Kingdom's attributes. (I've always liked him, and he was one of the horses that I used on Saturday.) We don't know how he'll react to being in a fast-paced dirt race. Anyone taking a short price on him in the Preakness will be asking him to do something that he has not done before.

slotdirt 05-09-2011 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parsixfarms (Post 775453)
I agree with your assessment of some of Animal Kingdom's attributes. (I've always liked him, and he was one of the horses that I used on Saturday.) We don't know how he'll react to being in a fast-paced dirt race. Anyone taking a short price on him in the Preakness will be asking him to do something that he has not done before.

Sort of like how he was the first horse in Derby history to win the race without having previously started on dirt. Not that I disagree with you on the Preakness, but the horse seems to be quite tractable on any surface, you know?

parsixfarms 05-09-2011 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slotdirt (Post 775454)
Sort of like how he was the first horse in Derby history to win the race without having previously started on dirt.

It's different taking that kind of risk on a horse who is 20-1, as opposed to one who is favored at odds between 8-5 and 2-1.

pweizer 05-09-2011 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 775440)
PREAKNESS FIELD

Committed:

1. Animal Kingdom
2. Mucho Macho Man
3. Dialed In
4. Shackleford
5. Astrology
6. Concealed Idenity
7. Dance City
8. Flashpoint
9. King Congie
10. Norman Asbjornson
11. Sway Away


Possible

Mr. Commons
Santiva
Saratoga Red


Doubtful

Nehro
Midnight Interlude
The Factor


Only Lukas would consider Saratoga Red a Preakness horse off his stellar sixth place non-effort in an optional claimer on Derby day. Amazing.

Paul

10 pnt move up 05-09-2011 12:35 PM

I have heard Mr Commons is looking more at the Belmont

dalakhani 05-09-2011 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pweizer (Post 775461)
Only Lukas would consider Saratoga Red a Preakness horse off his stellar sixth place non-effort in an optional claimer on Derby day. Amazing.

Paul

It was a prep.

somerfrost 05-09-2011 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pweizer (Post 775461)
Only Lukas would consider Saratoga Red a Preakness horse off his stellar sixth place non-effort in an optional claimer on Derby day. Amazing.

Paul

Poor DWL, he's reduced to grasping at straws, once he ruled US racing but now...a shell of what he once was.

tjfla 05-09-2011 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pweizer (Post 775461)
Only Lukas would consider Saratoga Red a Preakness horse off his stellar sixth place non-effort in an optional claimer on Derby day. Amazing.

Paul

They might as well send him,he is TC nominated so its not like they gotta pay alot to get him in. Plus don't think 7F is long enough for this horse

outofthebox 05-09-2011 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pweizer (Post 775461)
Only Lukas would consider Saratoga Red a Preakness horse off his stellar sixth place non-effort in an optional claimer on Derby day. Amazing.

Paul

He's looking to get some more of them crab cakes...

slotdirt 05-09-2011 04:00 PM

I think the fast-paced, dirt race question is a great one, but my real question is how will a horse who's run but five races since September fare running two races in two weeks and potentially three in five? His sire himself never started more than six times in a year, never ran on less than three weeks rest, and had a layoff of at least five months in each of his seasons of racing.

Kasept 05-10-2011 09:06 AM

Apparently Mucho Macho Man not contesting Preakness..

NTamm1215 05-10-2011 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 775682)
Apparently Mucho Macho Man not contesting Preakness..

Please tell Steve Haskin not to propagate this "tight turn" myth. Mucho Macho Man is a graded stakes winner at Fair Grounds, which is a much tighter-turned track than Pimlico.

randallscott35 05-10-2011 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 775682)
Apparently Mucho Macho Man not contesting Preakness..

this saddens me

justindew 05-10-2011 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 775682)
Apparently Mucho Macho Man not contesting Preakness..

Bummer. He was sure to lose at 4-1.

3kings 05-10-2011 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pweizer (Post 775461)
Only Lukas would consider Saratoga Red a Preakness horse off his stellar sixth place non-effort in an optional claimer on Derby day. Amazing.

Paul

:tro::wf

I new I used Saratoga Red in exotics and thought he ran out. When I saw he was running in the Preakness I thought i had confused the race with another.

NTamm1215 05-10-2011 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew (Post 775685)
Bummer. He was sure to lose at 4-1.

This from someone who took 4-1 on a bet that's being offered at more than 6-1. Do you have any other value plays for us today?

cakes44 05-10-2011 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjfla (Post 775475)
They might as well send him,he is TC nominated so its not like they gotta pay alot to get him in. Plus don't think 7F is long enough for this horse

7F is about as far as any Lukas horse wants to run in any big race these days. Problem is, that 7F is usually quite a ways short of the finish line in all these graded route races he keeps entering them in.

randallscott35 05-10-2011 09:26 AM

I'm ashamed to say I had a small bet on Saratoga Red in that race. **** Lukas

VOL JACK 05-10-2011 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 775682)
Apparently Mucho Macho Man not contesting Preakness..

This is great news!!

Lock City for the Belmont stakes.

OldDog 05-10-2011 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kasept (Post 775682)
Apparently Mucho Macho Man not contesting Preakness..

What happened? I thought just yesterday he was heading there.

RolloTomasi 05-10-2011 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up (Post 775467)
I have heard Mr Commons is looking more at the Belmont

He should have looked at the Alydar, then the Affirmed and Swaps before getting back on grass for the Del Mar meet.

You'd think the performances of Midnight Interlude and Comma To The Top would have scared him off.

If they really want to be part of the big time, they could have sent him to Kentucky when he was on the bubble for the Derby and used the American Turf as an alternate spot, kinda like Setsuko last year.

No shame in running second to Banned.


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