We need a third source. Not what I read regarding private insurance, or your ability to buy private plans, but that may have something to do with pools.

Edit: did some searching, and it does involve the exchanges - insurance companies will have to offer the same plan with and without abortion coverage in the exchanges, and as nearly all people in the exchanges will receive some insurance credits, so those people will not be able to purchase any policy with abortion included, thus the companies probably won't even offer it in the exchange pools. If you want to purchase it privately (if it is even offered to you in the exchange) that means that you must anticipate in advance you might need an elective abortion (??!! are they kidding?) Women whose employers purchase insurance through the exchanges will not be able to purchase policies that provide coverage for abortion.

In other words, it appears that only women who purchase their own private insurance policies, entirely outside any exchanges (the most expensive available) will be able to get coverage.

Abortion is legal. This amendment was a back-door pro-life circumvention of a legal right, that sets women's rights back decades if it sticks around.

My figure was not "in the air", it has been in the press regarding the diversionary attempt to tie healthcare reform to illegal aliens. If you have something different, post it.

Illegal aliens tend not to seek out things that can get them discovered as such, such as hospitals, unless they have no choice.

The answer is National Identification Cards, and if you don't have yours on your person when the ambulance picks you up, they stop CPR once you get to the hospital until they can accurately determine your citizenship status.

All those women who plan their yearly abortions in advance will surely be grateful for this clarification.

just curious where was this in the press? You consistently come up w/facts never citing a source other than your personal recall. And as I said even if your number is correct, 1% of 1.2 trillion is 12 billion so I'd suggest the 1% figure to be meant as a diversionary attempt to include them in healthcare citing the insignificant sounding 1% figure instead of stating the true cost of 12 billion. When illegals have no fear of going to the hospital surely their visits will increase and with 22.5 million in the country that 12 billion could easily grow by leaps and bounds.

Plus check out the savings, decrease of classroom size and increase of jobs we'd experience by doing nothing but following the laws already on the books and sending them home instead of to work, the hospital, school or prison.


http://immigrationcounters.com/

Well they could always add euthanasia into the bill for dumb broads who don't take the rider option. That would cut down on the need to protect dumb fuc.ks in the future.

Well that's what happens in things like this -- people wind up helping subsidize procedures for other people.

And abortion is a legal medical procedure, and as long as it is, it shouldn't take a separate rider. I'm not particularly keen on having my tax dollars go to plans that would support Michelle Duggar as she continues to use her uterus as a clown car, but it's part of the bargain, as long as it's legal.

it would be pitiful for our tax dollars to support abortion no matter how pro choice anyone is. only for a rape victim or similar circumstance should it be okay for tax dollars to pay for it.

women who are too stupid to use protection should either pay an arm and a leg for an abortion.. get their "baby daddy" to shell out the $.. or go the adoption rout. Its 2009, there shouldnt be unwanted pregnancies. some people are too irresponsible and then want someone else to take care of the problem.

Ok, well if you get warned that you're at risk for diabetes and don't change your habits to lose weight, exercise more and reduce your sugar and refined carb intake, I don't want my dollars to go towards helping you once you get sick. I think you should be sick all the time if you can't afford it because you're too irresponsible to do your part.

If you cut your finger off with a saw while doing work to improve your home, I also don't want to help pay for that, since you should have been more careful and not greedy to want your home to be nicer. You should just be responsible and not want your insurance to help pay for your hosptial care because you did it to yourself.

And for that matter, why pay for pregnant women and their care from insurance money either? It was their choice, and if they didn't want to accept full financial responsibility, why should I help pay for the care that they brought on themselves?

Point being, it's bulls*hit to try to deny legal medical procedures to someone else while enjoying different ones for yourself.

I agree with all of that. Let them pay out of pocket or take out private insurance to cover those expenses.

And as a "socialist" (!!!!) supporter of national health care, I think it comes with the territory, that you don't get to pick and choose what you think should be allowed even if it's entirely legal, while enjoying legal medical care for yourself that others may find objectionable or totally your own fault for doing it to yourself.

Private insurance companies should have the freedom to decide what they will offer.

Maybe then the masses will realize that it isn't the evil insurance companies who sent them a $15,000 bill for a simple outpatient surgery. And maybe, just maybe, they'll realize the real enemies are the attorneys who have crippled the doctor's and hospitals with yellow tape and fears of literal anal rape in a courtroom.

:rolleyes:

I really dont think you will be a supporter of socialist medicine if it actually happened. crappiest care around. Try living in a country with socialzed medicine and you will see.

oh yeah, and expect 40-50% of your paycheck going to the feds if you want socialized care.

How do I apply to become an illegal alien?

:tro:

In your usual eloquent fashion you nailed it.

Seems that 1% is overstated according to some figures. Too many. How about 14% of 43.9 million uninsured are non-citizens? Which is a little over 6 million people we are talking about. Out of 330 million.

See Brad Wright's article today about the "Po' white south" are the uninsured at Huffington Post website. He quotes the Urban Institutes policy briefs numbers involved in the healthcare debate in his article.

Private insurance companies do exactly that. They can even take it back after they sign a contract to do so and you've paid them. They can even take it back after they have said they would pay. They can drop an insured at any time, at their whim, as there are no laws to hold them to their side of the contract. The majority of bankruptcies in America are due to insured people paying for healthcare (google, Dell, it's everywhere).

In this, the wealthiest and most generous of countries, where all are created equal, we have thousands of our citizens getting extremely ill and dying every year because they cannot get regular basic health coverage, or they are ill and their insurance company pulls the rug out from under them and they lose their savings and their house and all they worked for their entire life.

And that is why decades have been spent trying to get health care reform instituted. Thank goodness there is a real chance of that.

Nothing in the healthcare reform bills are any more "socialized" than current Medicare.

Then you guys will be happy that tort reform and malpractice arbitration improvements are in the House bill.

43% of Congress are lawyers. To think Tort Reform will have any bite is like letting the foxes be in charge of securing the hen house.

and people have told me i'm cold.....

I know.. I was responding to bwspenser

And 75 percent of bankruptcies due to medical bills were by people who didn't have health insurance. Excuse me while I break out the world's smallest violin for you and the other liberals.

There are alot of ways to get high blood pressure , diabetes , and cut off your finger , but there is only ONE way to get pregnant and about 10 ways not to. If the government wants to do something to help people who dont want babies they should implant a chip in all baby boys born making them sterile and not take it out until they get married. Problem solved.

Ok, but of the many ways you can get high blood pressure, diabetes, or cut off your finger, should only the accidental, uncontrollable ones be covered by insurance plans? Two drivers in a car accident -- both go to the hospital, only the one who didn't cause the accident should have insurance cover it?

And why insurance coverage for pregnant women then? There is, after all, only one way to get pregnant. Their fault, let them pay for it.

I think there happens to be a difference between planning (or not even planning) to have a baby and actually having the child and caring for the child than being reckless and having unprotected sex and then having taxpayers pay for your unborn to be vaccuumed out into a trash bag.

But hey, thats just my opinion.

Driving a car and driving a penis are alot diffirent , wouldnt you say ?
Sometimes you lose control of your car thru no one's fault , can that be said about a penis?

I'm pretty sure the penis acts as the driver and the car. I'm sure its easy to lose control and have it be the penis' fault.

Ok, pregnant women. Get insurance to pay for their pre-natal care or no? I mean, they clearly drove a penis straight towards the only way to get pregnant.

How about not heeding a doctor's advice to try to avoid becoming diabetic? You either follow directions or you don't.

Insurance pays for that? Or no?

If I intentionally cut my finger off right now, I could go to the ER and get my insurance to pay for it. Much like intentionally driving a penis, so to speak.

Well then they need to put a "boot " on the penis so it cant be driven .

Things like diabetes and heart disease and such can be passed on thru gene's but getting knocked up is passed thru the zipper and no I dont think the federal government should pay for it , You who agree should donate your money to the next kill a baby for no good reason except that Im a fu cking selffish nimrod and I have no self control.

Can you rephrase that in English?

And you seem awfully selective about what sorts of self-induced things should be covered by insurance. Sure some diabetic people are genetically at risk...and some aren't. I'd submit that you'd need to make that distinction if you don't want to cover perfectly legal elective abortions in this health plan while covering all sorts of other situations people put themselves into.

But again, what you won't answer is whether or not you think that pregnant women's prenatal care should be covered by insurance, but not abortion....you get to the same spot the same way, so what gives?

The foxes have been ordering their hens not to allow any healthcare reform whatsoever.

Geesh ... did I need to use the :rolleyes: ???

Sorry, your facts are backwards.

Does it matter to anyone that federal funds haven't been used to fund elective abortions for the last 35 years or so, and that nobody is asking the federal government to fund them now, in any of the healthcare reform provisions? :)

What has been introduced in the amendment from "The Family" Senator from C-street, in his self-rightous religious zeal, is trying to implement and backdoor more restrictions than the current law provides for.

Fortunately today, Sen. Boxer said she knows there are enough votes in the Senate to block it. How she's gonna manage that, I don't know.

One of them, yeah. 75 percent had insurance.

You, on the other hand, conveniently left out that 60 percent figure includes households with medical bills totaling more than 10 percent of family income. And only 29% cited medical bills as the main cause.

Now take away the people out of those useless statistics that had other bills outside of their mortgage, and the stupid god damn statistics are rendered useless and once again I am basically right and you are wrong.

Because lets face it if I were wrong then more than likely you would end up with a major medical problem and probably go bankrupt and die. And really I'm not that lucky.

Yes, talking about 2007, medical bills totaling more than 10% of family income can bankrupt you, and it did - for 61% of 2007 bankruptcies. And 78% of those bankrupted people had health insurance, but were bankrupted anyway.

Sorry you think the statistics are useless. So proud of you, though, that you've gone from swearing and cursing at me to simply wishing I would die. I guess that means you're growing up :tro:

I dont want you to die or even get a cough. and i know your post wasnt directed to me.

But, before I die, I just want to hear (or see) you say (or type)

"My name is Riot, and I am a full blooded liberal."

please please please?