Except for that 116, if I recall. And that 109 as a 2-year old.

Your probablly right, I said I dont remember and Im not paying for his pp's on drf. Im trying to find them on formulator but its not working.

LITF was much faster (to date) than Zensational but then again, the Zen Master has yest to be in a race that forces his hand. So you never know, he may have one in him that could rival a 115 like number. I think XTra Heat was much faster too. I was never a big Henny Hughes fan.

The thing that Zensational has going for him is the surface, and lack of significant high quality challengers that have shown an ability to run well on this crap. Henny Hughes was facing top flight dirt sprinters on a dirt track. Fatal Bullet looks like the other synthetics lover, but I think it kind of hurts both of their chances given their styles of running are exactly the same. I wasnt that impressed with Fatal Bullet's race on Friday either. I would use Zensational at 6/5 before I used Fatal Bullet at 3/1.

I will either be taking a shot against him or just passing the race.

How about Kodiak Kowboy and his chances? Perfect running style for the crap, and I believe he had a few races on it early in his career, maybe at Keeneland?

Beyer wise, I think Zensationals top is a 111 and hes been in between 104-111... the key IMO is he's so lightly raced, how does he not stilll have room to improve... If someone could post LITF/HH pp's it would be appreciated.

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/lostinthefog.pdf

http://www.drf.com/bc/2009/pps/Zensational.pdf

Thanks for the PPS.

So at Bay Meadows and Calder LITF ran 2 beyers higher then Z's top. I think Z is better.
Zensational has won 3 Grade 1's, LITF 1.
I will take that anyday.

That's an absolutely idiotic measuring stick.

NT

So then what would you measure them by? Read how Crist felt about LITF, even trip after easy trip vs no ones.

I wouldn't measure them by anything because comparisons like this are dumb. There's absolutely no way to do it intelligently. They both got good at the right time and had very little competition that was worth noting. One flopped in the biggest race of his life, we'll see how the other one does.

The only race where LITF got away with anything ridiculous was at CrC but otherwise, when you go :44 and change you often make your own trip.

NT

It is but I've seen it used here alot by others who dont get called out. Please mind your own business, work on the spelling and leave him alone. I need his views in the rest of the races and we have about 10 more categories to go.

Rip Van Winkle

I wouldn't say he "flopped", I'd say he had a cancerous tumor the size of a football and still ran his guts out, the fact he was on the track that day still trying to win was kind of amazing.

Chuck I wont take this anymore. My handicapping skills are improving, check the selections room, this weekend I did well. Everything posted well ahead of time.

FYI.......
Family Foundation is running in the 7th race at Calder on Saturday the 14th in the Arthur I Appleton Juvenile Turf.