zenyatta ought to run vs the boys this year. seems we may have another year where the distaff division has more top horses than the 'handicap' division.

She ought to have last year. She'd better this year. Had she just run third in the BC Classic she probably would have been HOY.

Workout Patrol- On the California worktab

Multiple Grade 1 winner TIAGO (Pleasant Tap), third in the Breeders' Cup Classic (G1) most recently, drilled five furlongs in :59 2/5 over the Hollywood Park Cushion Track on Tuesday. He might reappear in Sunday's San Antonio H. (G2).

........ yeah, i dont know if she would have beaten the top two in the classic but she prob. would have run 3rd:confused:

Tiago and Zenyatta are roughly the same. She probably would have been 3rd or 4th.

The same what ?

Rail Trip

Apparently, you never got the memo. Because he only got a 99 Beyer Friday, you must now be disappointed in him. Sorry.

they have the same ability

then he must be no good

I am glad you cought that as well.

:eek:

Are you saying that Zenyatta is better?

Tiago would have swept all those races against females if he were in them. He has faced the best horses in the world for the past 2 years. He's finished ahead of Curlin. He's beaten Heatseeker in a stretch duel. He's a multiple G1 winner against males. Even if by some chance Zenyatta is better, it won't be by much, maybe 2 or 3 lengths better. But from what I've seen, they look about the same.

Tiago's beyer figures in 2008 ranged from 93 to 110

Zenyatta beyers ranged in 2008 ranged from 94 to 108

They look roughly the same to me.

I'm not saying Zenyatta can't beat grade 1 males, because she can. I'm just saying it won't be in the easy fashion that people think it will be.

Beyer shmeyer---she has already beaten him in workouts, dontcha know--and he got a head start--just like anything else she has worked with, usually males ...

big whoop. workouts don't always tell who is better in the afternoon.

Facing males is different. She'd win her fair share, but she'd lose some too.

And exactly where did it say that a workout equates to a race ?

And in what races do they give other horses lengths of head starts ?

I have seen in five decades many females facing males---depending on the female, it is not as difficult as you think.

Little 15 hand Cicada duking it out with the 17 hand Ridan, and just going under, Shuvee winning the JCGC at 2 miles twice, Waya, Ta Wee lugging over 140 pounds, are just some I remember.

They both beat and lost to their own and the boys .

And your point is nothing but patronizing ...

Well hopefully Tiago and Zenyatta will run against each other one day and we can see for certain. They probably never will run against each other, but it's the only way to know who is better.

Well, as far as I am concerned, they already have run against each other ...

Tiago never impressed me much, and his third in the BCC was a surprise ...

Finishing ahead of Curlin when that one shot his wad and was not persevered with does not add anything to the thought that he actually could run with him .

Zenyatta intrigues me as she seems both thus far invincible and in possession of reserves untapped .


I see nothing of that in Tiago .

If Tiago had the same schedule as Zenyatta last year, even though I realize this is completely hypothetical since it isn't allowed, he'd have an undefeated year and look just as invincible.

I do not agree, but you know what they say about opinions ...

You are entitled to yours ...

I have always loved Tiago, but this is a bit over the top.
He has never put it all together, and continues to look like a clunker, who sucks up in races. I think he would be a lot better on a dirt track " last year he did beat Heatseeker" but we won't see that this year.

lmao

you, schooling others on what is over the top?!

beyond comedy.

You actually misread my comments on Tiago finishing ahead of Curlin---I dismissed that as false fodder for a future argument .

I know Tiago's third was a suckup---re-read my post ...

You have to know I do not have hard-ons for horses, nor am I equipped to do so with any authority, Hossy ...

And I am not obsessed with Tiago---he is not of enough consequence to me for such emotion.

I will however allow that I have seen many great fillies in the decades I have followed racing , and Zenyatta has " it " for me in many ways .

She is a charismatic individual who races with flair and playfullness , and in the grimy vortex of today's racing she puts a happy spin of hope and quality in said vortex for me----maybe even worthy of a hard-on ....

Sorry , I have had an absessed tooth and am on major meds---so can I sit on your lap now and say I am sorry ?

Oh yuck---I take nothing for meds--they sent me to worshipping at the porcelain alter ...

I'm not a huge fan of Zenyatta, as we've discussed before. I want to see her race against males in G1 company before having an opinion on how good she really is.

But Tiago, I like how hard he tries. He's always there, even if he doesn't win.

the last few years, the handicap division has been considered substandard, while the distaff division was felt to be more contentious. so why would zenyatta need to beat substandard horses to get a better rep?

To satisfy those who think beating the opposite sex is the gold standard .

But then, of course, they would wail how bad the boys are, and how it doesn't count anyway .

Beating the opposite sex is not always doing something better than what you are already doing. There is a feeling among most people that Zenyatta is the best horse in the country this year. A lot of people also feel that Indian Blessing might be the best sprinter in the country. So if a female opponent beats one of them in a female restricted race this year, why should it matter that they didn't beat the boys? It's the same as when people want to give extra credit to a 3yo for beating older horses. That alone is not an accomplishment. Easy Goer beat up on older horses in the Whitney, Woodward, and Jockey Club Gold Cup. But he couldn't beat fellow 3yo Sunday Silence when it mattered most. So what did beating older mean in that case? To me, it's about beating the toughest competition. I would have rather seen Zenyatta beat Hystericalady, Proud Spell, Music Note, Ginger Punch, and Cocoa Beach than seen her beat Mast Track and Zappa and Mostacolli Mort just because they are males.

Excellent comment. Sounds like a Steve Haskins influence. I saw her at Santa Anita and man was she impressive. Big, long striding filly that just eats up ground.

Dr. Pleasure

What about Heatseeker and Go Between? Would you have taken Zenyatta over them on a synthetic racetrack in a fairly run race?

Go Between, hell yes. Heatseeker would have been a tougher deal.