No mort, rebounds dont matter. He "should" be able to get 5 rebounds in13 minutes in his first NBA game playing a portion of those minutes with a busted foot.

But he cant shoot a turn around J so he is an "underachiever" that will never be any good offensively.

Oh yes.....I think my first post here today said I thought he would become a dominant defensive center and excel at rebounds,blocks and keeping his opposite's numbers down.

He had a bad hand when he played those 20 or so games with Ohio,but he didn't look to me like he would be a scorer in the nba.

It's just the way Hossy said it, that's why I laughed....honest.


You know I'm always there for you.

He looks like Mutumbo to me. More athletic than mutombo though. He can shoot with both hands facing the basket. His footwork is awful but so is every big man's until they have spent a couple of years working on it. Look at Shaq. They all don't come into the NBA looking like HAkeem.

Sounds roughly right about Mutumbo...although I'm weak at bb...I just never got into that much.


And so....again---whatever you say when I don't know what I'm talking about is the direction I will go.


I do find your fine work fascinating and I am much better looking than The Philski.

No, I'm sane and every bit as intelligent as the next guy....I guess it's my bad for not typing my statement clearly enough for those who like to analyze posts....lets try this....he seems like he will be an underachiever at the pro level. Give me some credit...obviously I'm not saying his first few moments on the court have damned him just that he may end up such!!!
I'll make that determination after his career is over!

Sorry if insulted you. It was more hyberpole than anything else.

Im just curious how you can make that assessment after 13 minutes?

Was it the way he ran? Did his jersey hang out? Was it the brand of shoes he endorses?

Do you guys want your own room?

Uh...she seems to be an unwilling participant,although I'm willing to give it a try.




See what you can do for me...OK?

Sure he should have huge expectations. But dont you think its reasonable to give him more than 13 minutes to live up to them? What "great things" should he have done in 13 minutes in his first game on the road against the western conference champions??????????????????????????????

You cant say that a player should be a great rebounder based on his size. Thats a fallacy of logic.

If that were the case Yao Ming, Georghe Muresan and Shawn Bradley and Ralph Sampson would be the greatest rebounders in history.

And if that is the case and rebounding is so easy, why didnt Bynum have more than 3 rebounds in over twice the minutes? Why did he average but 6 per game last year in his third season while playing big minutes?

No...it comes from over 40 years of watching guys come to the NBA (god, I admitted that), many dominate in college but are a bust in the pros. The physicality of the pro game is important to note, this kid has a history of injury (obvious but true). Big guys (ie: 7 footers especially) often incur foot problems. Sam Bowie is an excellent example of what I fear, he was great in HS in Pa...followed his career, then he excelled in college but never healthy in pros. He will always be remembered as the guy picked before MJ but, in truth, he appeared to be a "can't miss" center. This kid is very raw...size and athletic ability allowed him to dominate in college (still, the injury bug struck) but the NBA is a whole new game. He can't shoot...no touch whatsoever and commits silly fouls (this was evident in college as well). Can he develop over time? Of course, but the pressure is huge for him to excel NOW. In a way, if this is a minor injury it could benefit him cause the Blazers upcoming schedule features the likes of Duncan, Shaq and (Gulp) the man-monster Howard! Bynum is still rather raw himself...against the likes of Howard and Shaq, this kid will be way over his head! Long term, my main issue is that I honestly don't think he will stay healthy given his past and the physical nature of the game...I hope I am proven wrong but...to me...I think we'll see many repeats of last night!

When one calls someone an "underachiever" it implies someone that doesnt work hard. If you meant he will underachieve based on the fact that he will stay injured, that is impossible to predict but i understand your point.

Silly fouls? Freshman commit silly fouls in college...even the great ones. Rookies do too.

Rookies get schooled by older players early in their careers. Its part of the rites of passage in the NBA. Playing against Shaq, Howard or whoever else will only make him better.

I just think labeling this kid after 13 minutes is ridiculous.

1) underachiever means someone/thing that underachieves, it doesn't imply anything else to me...could be any number of reasons why.
2) the nature of this kid's game results (so far) in silly fouls, of course he can learn to play "smarter", whether he will be able to do so without sacrificing the physical/aggressive nature needed only time will tell. Some guys do and some don't!
3) again, how often do I have to say it...I wasn't labeling the kid merely expressing my thoughts that he may not meet expectations...leave it go!

In terms of what Mutombo looked like when he first came into the league? Very similar. Similar in build and similar in type of impact. Do you want Mutombo's stats from his first year?

Oden injured his foot less than 3 minutes into his first game and played a total of 13 minutes and you can make a judgement on who is better and who will be better? 13 minutes vs. 3 years and you can make a judgement as to who will be a better player.

Your talent evaluation skills are way beyond mine. You win.;)

:)

underachiever has connotations of underworker. Not the case here.

2. So far is THIRTEEN MINUTES. And 20 games in college. Tell me one big man that didnt commit silly fouls his freshman year in college?

Craziness.

They guy is a shot blocker, rebounder extraordinare.
That is enough for Portland right now. His injury is one
of the more severe. If he gets in NBA shape, with time,
he will get the offense down.

He will be a force this year if he gets minutes and stays
injury free. Without any offense he is a force.

I have a sick feeling he will be one of those that is
constantly limping around. Sad. And those wrinkle free
ointments are a must.

Hey i didnt say it.

I probably saw him play 10 or 12 times in college, most of the games he was coming off of an injury to his wrist. He is extremely athletic for his size which is why he was drafted number 1. That and the fact he played really well during the tournament when seemingly healthy. There is no doubt that he has a really scary history of injuries but his peak potential (if he ever gets there) is a whole lot better than just about any other big guy out there. I think he reminds me a lot of Ewing in size and the way he moves but of course Ewing had 4 years of college experience coming into the league. Ewing also developed an offensive game that he wasnt asked to do in college. Simply not having much experience is so hard for a guy like Oden because he has never had to match up against really good big guys in HS or even much in college and has always been the best player on the court. You really have to give him at least this year and probably next before we will be able to really see what he has got or where he is going.

Exactly.

Ewing (and mutombo for that matter) had the best college coach for big men ever.

Ok. You are nuts.
Look at the man play.

Why was Lebron James drafted #1 without playing a single college season/game?

Sorry there were plenty of people that thought
Lebron would be overwhelmed by the pro game.
He plays maybe 27 games in a high school season
without traveling coast to coast to play 82 games? You dont think there
was some concern about adjusting?

Go back and try to remember the numerous legitimate arguements
about why he would take lots of time adjusting. He was not even playing
against pro athletes in these HS games. And suprisingly he was better
the 2nd half of the pro season.

Lebron has spent a few more years in the NBA.
I dont think it would be fair to compare that.
But it is interesting to compare how diff. people feel
about number 1 draft picks .

Like who? LOL. Do you just make this **** up as you go? He was a cant miss, once in a generation player when he came out and there was no debate whatsoever about him being number one.

Why dont you just go to bed phil. You have to be better than this.

I cant help myself.
You need to be seen for who you are.

You are telling me when Lebron was drafted, before he played
a pro game. He was called a once in a lifetime player?
By the people who saw him in HS yes.

But to say the consensus was Lebron was a once in a lifetime player
is complete BS. And you know this if you really kept up when Lebron was
drafted #1. It is easy to say now. But when you forget what was....
Selective memory.

The "consensus" did see him play in high school. ESPN was televising a couple of his regular season games which was a first for a high school athlete.

There was no question. Sports illustrated did a huge piece on him when he was a JUNIOR in high school.

LOL. you are so clueless im laughing at you.

Sport ILLUSTRATED.
A great source for success in the future.
Please stop reading magazines and watch the damn games.

THere were plenty of doubters that he was coming out way to
early and that he would be eaten up by the pro game. Seriously,
you have to know this.

Mr. Garden...he was touted that way..as a once in a lifetime guy. It it is my recollection there was no doubt he would be the first guy taken no matter who got that pick.

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL You are a joke:D

You said the "consensus" now you are changing it to "plenty of doubters".

Who exactly were these "plenty of doubters" and where can i read their work?

Do you have links to these "plenty of doubters"?

Im sure there were some morons (like yourself) that thought that he wouldnt make it. Most knew he would.

Yes. 3 years down the line it really gets easy.
Great job. Quit playing your silly games.
You did it before. It does not work.

The fact is there were many people that thought it would
be very tough on Lebron. I did not take a Gallop poll. But I guess
your Sports Illustrated issue did.

Go three years back on any public board or articles on Lebron
where professional scouts were interviewed. Links... Oh yes your links.

Can you provide a link to any of what you are claiming phil?

here is a link backing up what i am saying:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/...in555131.shtml

You are correct.
There was not doubt he would be the first pick.
The question was how good a player would he become,
especially since his first year was right out of HS.

So you are saying all the kids would want Lebrons and Carmellos shoes.
Good article and right to the point.
Are you kidding with this?
Is this some sort of joke?