I have mixed feelings too, for the reasons already mentioned but another reason I don't really want the TC to be won this year is because I don't want to have to see that Derby over and over again in the future with what happened to poor Eight Belles.

Reminds me a bit of when Slew was going for the triple and all the negative stuff surrounding his owners/trainer etc. I hated reading the B.S but still enjoyed seeing the horse win.

Very interesting and passionate opinions here.

Big Brown is a very talented colt. There is little doubt in that. However, he is trained and owned by people that make my skin crawl.

I have no problem with a guy like Dutrow doing drugs himself. Makes no difference to me. I do have a serious problem with him drugging his horses and winning purses at the expense of other accomplished horseman. It forces trainers (and owners) into a moral decision about whether to stay honest and lose and pair up with the "dark side" in order to win.

I still get chills watching Easy Goer/Sunday Silence or Ferninand/Alysheba or Secretariat. So, as a horse racing fan, I cannot help feel that Big Brown is where he is based in part (and probably a large part) on the fact that he has illegal substances helping him. Do I know that for a fact? Of course not. But where there is smoke, there is usually fire. Anyone handicapping Rick Dutrow (and his brother) can easily see there is an uncommon skill at winning with anything. Seasoned horse players are not idiots and are probably more adapt at spotting falsities than any outside investigator.

As far as the owners go, not a lot to say other than they appear to have zero class and have little interest in the betterment of the game. They want to make money, which is fine, but their actions and attitudes are hard to believe. Very smug, self important and arrogant. In a game like horse racing, where most owners fit that bill (rich, arrogant, etc) it is amazingly impressive that these owners can stand out in that category.

The whole thing (Dutrow, IAEH, drugs, breakdowns, excessive whipping, no ADW options on many tracks, high takeout in all pools, charging for admission, lack of technology improvements) just makes me turned off to the game. As a sport, it hardly reaches the national map. It won't be long until the Kentucky Derby is broadcast on ESPN, then on TNT, then maybe on the GAME network. Go out and look at ESPN and try and find it on their hyperlinks. It shows up with Mixed Martial Arts, Lacrosse and the WNBA...and after the AFL. Not even sure what the AFL is....

arena football league i bet.

I was kind of wishy washy leading up for the Preakness this week. After watching the race, I am on the bandwagon and have a case of TC fever. I still think that this is a bad year for 3-year olds, but the way that he disposed of that field was ridiculous. I thought for a sec that they might get him going in the the turn, then I saw Kent give a look behind him and next thing I knew he was going going gone. I hope he comes out of the race ok and goes to Belmont with his A-game. I am even considering taking my son.

I have to admit, I didn't watch the Dutrow and the corporation accept the trophy and thankfully it seemed that all the horses came home ok. Both of those factors make me able just to focus on the horse's remarkable performance. Obviously, that wasn't the case 2 weeks ago. Even though the rest of the field might not be that strong doesn't change the fact that BB destroyed them after racing 2 weeks ago. Same thing goes for the Belmont, if he does it it will be 3 wins in 5 weeks. The mixed feelings are gone, I am hoping to see history in 3 weeks!

716 I agree..this is now exciting and as a big fan how can you not help it!

i'm still unexcited. nice horse...but having seen spectacular bid try and fail, and others since then who i thought were better than this guy.....well, if he wins it, props to him. but we've been here a LOT. a lot, and with horses who were just as eye popping in their wins...i remember when penny chenery loaned secretariats overgirth to the smarty folks. oooops.

Well, thats true too... However there's still hope, and after the sadness of the Derby I am ready for some excitement. Go Big Brown!!

I'm rooting for Casino Drive to be the 3rd offspring of Better Than Honour to win the Belmont. As far as I know, Better Than Honour has never been suspended from the breeding shed for drug infractions.
May not be a TC winner but still history being made.:)

Well ive made my opinions known on other posts. I hate this horse. I would be unbelievably (sp) happy if he loses in the Belmont. Like when the Patriots and that douchebag Belicheat and his cover boy qb got there asses planted in the super bowl. One of the few times ive ever gotten really excited about a pro game. I do not want these owners and this trainer and this horse to be mentioned in the same sentence as "Big Red", Slew, Affirmed makes me want to puke.

[quote=wac]Well ive made my opinions known on other posts. I hate this horse. I would be unbelievably (sp) happy if he loses in the Belmont. Like when the Patriots and that douchebag Belicheat and his cover boy qb got there asses planted in the super bowl. On of the few times ive ever gotten really excited about a pro game. I do not want these owners and this trainer and this horse to be mentioned in the same sentence as "Big Red", Slew, Affirmed makes me want to puke.[/QUOTE]

Better stop reading about him or invest in some Dramamine:rolleyes:

Cowgirl, ive already bought it.

i would never say i hate the horse, but i am ambivalent about what he's doing, and on the cusp of doing. hard to have much excitement build over a horse who has made five starts ever-today being the third time i've seen him run. we all know this is a lackluster group, with big brown the only bright spot thus far-so you have to wonder if part of why he looks good is that everyone else is so bad. keep in mind that eight belles is one of only five fillies to ever finish first or second in the derby, and she finished second pretty handily.
i also find myself quite uninspired about a horse who will most likely have six career starts, as i believe that win or lose, the belmont will be his finale. whether it's grand or not, i don't know.
people seem to think that a horse winning the triple crown will somehow give this sport a boost-i think the chasing of the cup is more of a boost. once it's won (if and when) then the next years' attempt won't be nearly as enthralling for many.

With BB this year and Curlin last year, I wonder if this will be a new tactic leading/training up to the derby.
As far as a boost to the sport, I personally don't think that there will be one. BB will have his 15 minutes of fame with mainstream America and then the next time they will bet a race will be next years derby.

which is exactly what i don't want to see happen.

Let me ask a hypothetical question. Everyone pretty much thought that this was a very mediocre (that still a stretch) group of 3-year olds. But it seemed that there were a handful of ok/good horses. Do you think people's perception of BB would be different if say Pyro and Colonel John ran well in the Derby? What if War Pass didn't get hurt and BB was able to beat him in both races so far? It just seems that every other horse has bombed except BB.

It doesn't matter, for numerous reasons. First, many people will not look past the trainer. They never will. Dutrow attracts criticism. He also attracts animosity, and it seems outright hatred. There is no doubt that his past is checkered with problems, and apparently his present as well. He is easily a target -- both personally and professionally.

Second, the owners of this horse attract the very same thing. Whether it's the suits, sunglasses, or perceived arrogance, doesn't matter. Third, the moving bar will keep moving, and whatever he doesn't do will be the bar for greatness, comparison to the greats, etc.

The best horse won the FL Derby, the KY derby and now the Preakness -- but in the "court" of the public, perception or otherwise, it appears this horse will never be accepted, respected, etc. by the masses. I don't know if this forum is reflective of the masses, but if it is, just read all the threads. There is why it doesn't matter.

Eric

Any body who would make this kind of statement has absolutely no business following or particpating in our great sport.
I have no problem with you liking or dis liking his connections
but to state you hate the horse is totally absurd.

That posters opinion is not unique. People who feel this way are missing the point. Big Brown can't run in a race with Citation, Seattle Slew, Affirmed and all the rest of the icons that have acheived greatness.

This horse has broken so many rules and while his competition so far has been weaker than he is. The horse has completely dominated . If he wins the Belmont Stakes and this time I'm rooting for him as a fan in addition to a horseplayer, he will deserve to be mentioned in the same breath of the eleven previous Triple Crown winners.

Belmont Stakes is only three weeks away and I have seats about a hundred yards from the finish line. The same seats as last year when I saw Rags To Riches win the Belmont. I would of hit the triple and the late pick four that day if Curlin would have won. But when Rags put her head in front I was rooting like heck for her to win. Triple and pcik four be damned. I hope I have the opportunity to see a Triple Crown winner in person. I'm rooting for Big Brown.

If you're gunna hate a horse, it should atleast be one of these individuals that seem to have mastered the art of running 2nd. Like that T. B. Dylan horse that ran 2nd again at HWD PARK Friday night. I think 7 second place finishes( in a short career) should qualify one to be legit hate material. I actually catch on to their ways pretty quickly. I don't bet them, but I find them objectionable individuals.

Ok im sorry i said that i hate the horse b/c after thinking about it and talking with my girlfriend she made a good point that if it was another trainer or owner would i still be in such a bad mood and i said that no i guess its really nothing about the horse. I love watching racing as much as anyone and i do admit that the horse is very talented i just wish it was a different group. Sorry if i offended anyone.

as the saying goes..you can pick your friends but you can't pick your family..so I guess we know how BB feels...:)

or is it you can pick your nose.....but you can't pick your friend's nose..sometimes I get confused..:confused:

What is wrong with Paul Pompa Jr.?

Years ago I described being a horseplayer as like having a girlfriend that nobody likes. Well, guess what? For the next few weeks my girlfriend got a lot more popular. Stop whining about it and dig it. It's a good thing.....and it won't last.

Owner Finds Joy in Loyalty: Big Brown Part of Pompa's Payback
By Adam Kilgore
Washington Post Staff Writer

NEW YORK -- Paul Pompa Jr. glanced at his laptop screen Wednesday morning, eagerly checking if the e-mail he was waiting for had appeared. "Not here yet," he said. In most ways, this day was like any other for the owner of horse racing's star of the moment. Pompa woke up at his home in Warren, N.J., at 4:30 a.m. and arrived at his office in Brooklyn by 6:30. He ensured the trucks left the yard on time, then settled behind his desk, one room over from his brother Tom and his cousin Pete....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051700282.html





NOTE: PLEASE.... DO NOT PASTE COPYWRITTEN MATERIAL IN ITS' ENTIRETY AND CERTAINLY NOT WITHOUT AT LEAST GIVING CREDIT TO THE SOURCE AND AUTHOR...

How can you hate on a guy like Pompa?

And Dutrow may be a rebel but he's faced tremendous adversity and is now on the verge of being the trainer of a triple crown winner.

How could you not laugh at this hilarious quote?

Look on the bright side...at least it isn't Jeff Mullins. He actually doesn't like gamblers.

That's an excellent point you made about Jeff Mullins. However his distain for the people who pay his salary does not stop me from wagering on horses he trains.

Maybe in 3 weeks NBC can do a feature on Dutrow at Scores!

Well said.

And as much antipathy as I have towards Dutrow and the IEAH douches, at least this is a horse that the networks will have a hard time forcing into being a heartwarming story, which is a good thing. Every time a horse wins a big race, there's gotta be some kinda cutesy romantic twist to it with these people. I remember hearing Smarty Jones being referred to as the colt from the "wrong side of the tracks" or something. Yeah, he was only by freaking ELUSIVE QUALITY!

I believe they referred to him as that because of where he was based at. Philly Park/unknown trainer etc.. True about the romantic twist comment.. No "warm fuzzy" feelings with the connections of Big Brown.

I get it, I just thought it was ridiculous how the media tried to contort him into some scrappy underdog when he was bred to be a fine horse.

Just this racing fans' perspective and I believe that I am not alone with these thoughts. I don't care for the human side of Big Brown. Guess what, Big Brown did not choose to be with these people. Its not like he can say enough of this I am off to Zitos' Barn etc.. So, why should I let the people side get in the way of cheering on a horse to something that has not been done in 30 years and will create a positive buzz about this sport we all love for a long time. I am going to enjoy the next three weeks as much as I can. Gonna read all I can read. Then, when June 7th rolls around and they are loading into the gate their will be a level of excitement shared by so many that has not been reached in a long time.

Enjoy this positive time in the sport. Put aside the negatives and take in the positives. Funny thing is, I have this bad feeling about the whole deal being done for the supposed fifty million dollars. So, putting that aside I am for the horse and not the people associated with. Big Brown did not choose his fate, he just wants to beat whoever loads beside him.

All in all, if we are to have a TC winner, I would rather it had been Smarty Jones, or Afleet Alex. Someone else said that it would be much preferred if a homebred or like Funny Cide's connections. A Wall Street person just does not appeal to me as much because for no reason other than my personal opinion, they don't have the love for their horse that would be there if it was from their own home. But then I like to root for the so-called underdog going against all the moneyed big city slickers with their smirky interviews. :cool:

sort of like seabiscuit in the movie...

I think NBC will conveniently 'forget' about horse racing as of now since the Belmont is on ABC this year.. that said.. maybe ABC will do the feature!

yeah...that ragamuffin direct descendent of Man O War. Horridly bred!

I may be remembering wrong, but I thought at the time Elusive Quality was bred to I'll Get Along his stud fee was about $10,000- Servis thought he was a sire who was going to have a big future, but wasn't there yet and that's why he suggested the mating- getting what he thought would be a good sire at a cheap price. So it was more a case of a future recognized blueblood. :)

Almost as funny as the movie describing War Admiral as 18 hands. I guess the filmmakers thought Shorty versus Shorty wouldn't make for compelling drama.

EQ was a lot more then 10k when SJ was conceived

Do you know how much? I googled before I posted but I couldn't find the answer.

Wait- I just did, and his stud fee was $10,000 until 2003, when it was bumped to $30,000. Smarty having run in '04, that would mean the fee was indeed, $10,000.

Whew- I've got a good memory for useless trivia (and not much else) and was afraid even that was failing me!

Here's the link- it's an interesting piece on EQ.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...pagewanted=all