The true comedy here is I took the words out of your mouth. I'll book whatever you want on this horse to win the Derby.

I'm sure you wouldn't find a definition of closer or stalker that matches the horse racing meanings either. Think of it as one paced then if plodder doesn't match your definition.

Wow.

This whole argument is silly. First of all, you're now argueing semantics, and Sniper is right as to how the word " plodder " is used in racing. But, more to the point, being a fan of one horse has no bearing on how one feels necessarily about another. Dennis of Cork has run well in all three of his races and appears to be progressing well towards the Derby. If you don't like him, for whatever reasons, that's fine but he has at least demonstrated an ability to handle two turns and looks like a horse that will handle a distance of ground. Majestic Warrior is a huge question mark who has yet to either run as a 3YO or successfully negotiate any distance beyond 7F. And, when you consider who his very successful dam is, and what her strength was, it's at least not unreasonable to draw a comparison between mother and son. And, until Majestic Warrior disproves that comparison, something he has yet to come even close to doing, being apprehensive about supporting him makes a great deal of sense logically.

Simply put, Dennis of Cork has done nothing wrong and Majestic Warrior, so far, has basically done nothing.

How much will you take Phil and what are the odds?

Sniper is right.

David Carroll is a trainer known for gradually improving horses going into the big races.


Give me a bleeping break. Carroll has had lots of high dollar horse flesh and done jack and bleep with them.

We'll see where this Denis of Cork is when it matters.


Oh and I never said anything about Majestic Warrior and the derby.

He's 30-1 in Vegas, I'd offer that on $500. But this bet was only available to BBB. I don't need the money.

Yes?

Spinning Round was A LOT like her daughter Dream Supreme.. both had their finest moments going 7F...

what about Ashland?

With the many misgivings, this thread, regarding MAJESTIC WARRIOR and his preferred distance, (more than a few suggested, foolishly, that he is a sprinter because his dam was ?). The AP Indy colt handled six furlongs this morning.

As we posted, this would be a very important work and we cannot recall a faster Payson move. By any measure, six panels at this deep training center is not a frequent occurence. Nomatter Pillow Pants passes a big hurdle and is very live having one of a half dozen or so.

BBB

I love the " we " sh it. I mean, honestly, you really have to respect the pretentiousness.

I realize you are just taking the opposite opinion of the smart posters on this site in hopes that one day you, too, can post something smart, but why exactly, and I know you won't answer because you only take cheap shots and never engage in actual dialogue, is it foolish to suggest that he is a sprinter because his dam was....especially in light of the fact that he emulates her running style on the racetrack?

Thanks for answering BBB. Appreciate your time.

BTW

Majestic Warrior is by A P Indy and inbred to both Secretariat and Buckpasser three of the preemininent stamina influences in the stud book. Horses get their class from their dams and generally emulate their sire with regards to surface, style and distance and precocity.

Predicting that MW is a sprinter is an opinion based on flawed logic.

The third dam was a router, the second dam won the Alciabades. Dream Supreme won three graded stakes at seven furlongs.

You should get a book or two on pedigree, it is an egregious hole in your game. BBB

so majestic warrior has already shown he isn't a typical ap indy--having won the hopeful. for the most part, ap indys are expected to blossom later in their careers, with patience being a key ingredient in their development.

also, if you're trying to suggest that dream supreme would provide a stamina influence, how does the statement that she won three times at 7f bolster that argument?

Perhaps I am wrong, but I had always heard that the opposite was true, and that the dam is typically more important in determining stamina.
Either way, I don't think we have seen enough from this horse to determine what his ideal distance might be.

I don't know that I would describe it as an " egregious " hole in my game, as unlike you I actually win despite my mediocre understanding of pedigree, but I certainly don't pretend to be an expert, also unlike you.

However, my good friend Tony Cobitz is an expert, and so I have turned to him on this important issue. In a nutshell.....he agrees with you from a pedigree standpoint and says that physically Majestic Warrior does not look like a sprinter. While his running style may prove a problem, as well as ten furlongs, he certainly feels this horse should get 9 furlongs.

Pardon me for going above you, but Tony has proven his worth at the racetrack for many years, to both myself and others, while I am still waiting, and hoping, for you to do that here. I haven't given up hope.

that's what i have always seen as well-speed from the sire, stamina from the dam.

i agree with your last sentence.

I remember playing cards in Ann Arbor many years ago with Tony Cobitz. I think we shared a ride or two to DRC or Hazel too. Nice guy. LAst I remembered of him was seeing him on the Arlington in-house show about 20 years ago. Glad he did well.

He also did the Gulfstream in-house and evening replays back in the early 90's.

Tony's great. He did the BC " Playing to Win " show with me.

I'm pretty harsh on people's opinions at the racetrack but I can honestly say that there are very few who's opinions I respect as much as Tony. Not only has he given me a boatload of winners over the years but he doesn't approach things from the normal perspectives and he constantly teaches me things I may well not have understood in the past. He's a good friend and a brilliant student of the game. He has my highest respect.

Calder, too, and maybe Arlington.

I will take the 500.00 wager at 30-1 and will forward the money in advance to whomever you deem appropiate on this board other then You lol

MW may win the Derby and I like the colts chances. But your logic is pretty weak and you are tangling with folks who make a living knowing about horses.

I question theorically speaking, If we breed Personal Ensign to The Green Monkey you think TGM will have more influence on her offspring then she would have?

IMO you could bred Hasili to a frog and get a grade 3 winner!

You know a lot more about pedigree's them BBB....I think it's always encouraging when a colt outruns his pedigree. An Indy winning early and short is encouraging no matter who the dam is..But that isn't to say he won't turn out actually what you guys think he will be.

Stalker: 1: someone who walks with long stiff strides. 2: someone who stalks game. 3: someone who prowls or sneaks about; usually with unlawful intentions

Update
 

Majestic Warrior was entered in Saturday's Louisiana Derby drawing the nine hole with Gomez named. The son of A.P. Indy completed his major preparation with a half mile at Payson Park Sunday morning.

Reading between the lines, perhaps with blurred vision, the work "looks" very good, if not outstanding. The time given was 48.40 and it was a co-bullet with about a dozen or so working that distance. Only one other worker broke 50 seconds and a black type work is generally very good.

A more in depth analysis that calls for conclusion, and maybe an upgrade to outstanding is within reason. MW has been working steadily and a little longer each work with his last work 2/23 going six panels. Yesterday's half matches up with stablemate Duke Of Pearl and that one is entered also eligible later in the week. "Duke" is bred in the purple ( a half to Vision and Verse et. al.) and is quick in the mornings. Additionally "Duke" was entered blinkers ON and trainers usually work their horses in blinkers before running them in that equipment change as most jurisdictions require starter approval. Sophomore colts, especially those by Unbridled's Song can lay down some swift splits, first time hood and this work could be spot on.

By any measure MW faces a tough task Saturday with Pyro and Tale Of Ekati, two of a half dozen or so that can win the roses. Nevertheless in a year where several "big name" contenders have counterfeit ten panel pedigrees ( War Pass, El Gato Malo, etc.) MW remains, at least for now, one of the ones. BBB

I thought only one horse can win the Derby ( though I hadn't accounted for a dead heat ).

Has there ever been a dead heat among a half dozen ( or so ) horses?

Good analysis. Do you know that a good number of works at Payson, PBD and Palm Meadows are clocked and reported by trainers or their staff? Not that it matters much but if you drill down as hard as you seem to do on works, it may be something to think about. Aside from frequency and spacing, it's pretty impossible to glean much from works unless you see them yourself and are an outstanding judge of physical appearance.

Good analysis? He wrote a dissertation about a phuckin' 4 furlong work that was published in the DRF. MW may turn out to be a very good horse but there is NO chance he wins the La Derby. NONE.

so true....especially Payson works...

:cool:

A bit tongue in cheek. I'm still anxious to hear BBBs account of how MW hot-walked after the work.

You caught Phil of guard......ya know, being that you're usually soooooooo serious.

Well done. Ya got me. :)

Yeah, he sure didn't look like a closing sprinter today.

Well he didn't have the best of trips...but that's still no excuse for the lack of heart down the stretch. He looks like a grade III horse...maybe II since the division is so weak.

i liked the comeback, strong middle move, then flat... its ok.. next race he fires huge

we'll see, I have my doubts though.