[quote=brianwspencer]Says the man who two posts back used the terms "pro-abortion" and "anti-abortion."

"Pro-abortion" is perhaps the single most wild and fallacious of all of the abortion-related slogans.

The rest is an old song and dance that we've already been over that I don't particularly feel like slogging my way through again. It's tiresome (as I'm sure it is for anti-choicers too), because it's really impossible to have any legitimate, rational debate with (not necessarily you, but the general composite anti-choicer) the type who yammers their ass off about protecting life while loving the death penalty, loving war, and creaming their pants over torture more than any other group of people in this country.

Pro-life my ass.[

I don't disagree that it seems that most folks on the so-called "christian right" tend to be anti-abortion, pro-war and pro-death penalty while finding no issue with torture...that has NOTHING to do with the issue...don't damn the issue because certain folks tend to take a specific stand. They may well be against freedom for women...you'll have to take that up with them. I can only speak for myself...I'm not christian, don't support war, torture or the death penalty and certainly don't, as a feminist, want to in any way restrict a woman's freedom to make decisions. You still are focusing on the messenger and not the message!

Well on this tangent, the messenger is of the utmost importance. In the bigger picture of what I talked about in my last post, the people saying it are absolutely to be focused on.

Because if their entire point is a claim of concern for life when talking about whatever-you-want-to-call-it at conception, yet they simultaneously show a flagrant disregard for life (and in some ways, seem to even take joy in actively supporting the destruction of life) in so many other areas -- it's not really out of bounds to come to the conclusion that it has nothing to do with life, and everything to do with controlling women.

Perhaps your position on the subject is more noble than those disingenuous folks I've just finished describing (and it comes from a different place...one I don't agree with, but the premise is more noble), but sadly for you -- your lot is cast with them. And as long as they keep acting like bonafide, anti-woman degenerates, your points all get lost in translation.

I don't agree at all.Most of the world's problems are caused by people imposing(or wanting to impose) their beliefs on those who don't share them.

We are saying the same thing, aren't we? If folks really respected the views of others, they wouldn't have a need to impose their beliefs on them!

Sadly, I fear you are right...

maybe you misread me here, or in the past. i'm pro choice. what i meant is that no one is pro death, altho some pro lifers would argue that if one is pro choice, one must be pro death. that's the kind of thing people tend to want to cling to, titles. black or white, if you aren't this then you must be that.
as for my religion, i was raised catholic, but i don't consider myself to be one (altho some say once a catholic, always so) and i do not attend any church, and haven't in years.

I agree with Brian Spencer on the abortion issue.

Rudy for me

Rudy's concept of freedom
 

Bid, you may want to read this from the NY Times...

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...50C0A962958260

No,I was responding to Notre Dame guy's question.Was just adding to your post,but would have been more clear to use his post.

i love the internet.

all this smoke and heat off a single line by a guy who couldn't hit water if he fell off a boat.

i think just the fact that ndguy thinks it's the right position should give you pause somer.

when has he ever been right?

say what you want about me, being pro-life is something I have been passionate about since I was a freshman in high school. I have volunteered and taken part in many pro-life rallys, and the thought of abortion makes me sick. I have eight nieces and nephews, and thinking about something as terrible as abortion is sad.

Here is a video that you guys can view if you would like, it is an abortion taking place 11 weeks into the pregnancy, and is hard to watch, but I think could have the ability to change some peoples opinion. As the instrument is being put in to poke the baby and take its life, you can see the baby squirming to get away and doing anything in its power to save itself from the harm of the instrument. This is murder plain and simple.

http://www.silentscream.org/video/SS...ntSc_Eng_3.mov

NO,IT'S NOT THE SAME THING AT ALL.To respect somebody else's view on something means I accept that you(Somer)are gunna AVOID/REJECT abortion in yourlife.It has zero,nada,no impact at all on how I live my life.See,the problem is that people want to force others totake on beliefs.If I change a belief,it should be because I looked at all the information on something,and come to a conclusion.Respecting your view on something doesn't include me taking on your view.So,most of the problems in the world aren't due to people not respecting others views.The problems are due to people feeling so strongly about their views that they try to impose their views on others.For instance,I don't have a problem with Moslems that don't drink or gamble.I respect their choice not to do that.I won't ever try to force them to do it.See,there is no problem here.The resentment comes when they don't allow NON-MOSLEMS to drink or gamble.They impose their beliefs on others.The excuse will always be the same as your own(you feel strongly about it..so,how can you simply stand by as others do it.)That's not a good enough reason...The only good reason to force beliefs on people is when their actions endanger you,or your family.For instance,if somebody believes it's o.k. to drink n' drive,then you need to force your belief on them(not to drink n' drive.)People try to impose beliefs.They want to force others to take on new beliefs.This is the reason for most problems.People too often get "outside themselves,"and force people to act a certain way they find acceptable.Works fine until you lose power,and then somebody else will force you to take on their beliefs.

Ditto with Rudy with Richardson 2nd...

Ron Paul, thank God, is last on my list.
I would have pulled my spleen out if he came up first.

Since you are an "active" protester, where do you draw the line..Would you picket a Dr's house? Harass their family? Bomb a clinic? Say a silent prayer of thanks when one of Scheidler's nuts kills a nurse or Dr?

I'm not a very violent person if that is what you are asking, and I would do none of those things that you said. None of the pro-life people that I have witnessed at the rallys are violent, or harrass anyone, we normally march around the town with signs and end up at the church where we say a few prayers and go on our way.

"say what you want about me, being pro-life is something I have been passionate about since I was a freshman in high school."

you were in favor of baby murder before 2005?

"I have volunteered and taken part in many pro-life rallys"

like you i hate those pro-death people.

"I have eight nieces and nephews, and thinking about something as terrible as abortion is sad."

my sympathy to your aunt.

"Here is a video that you guys can view if you would like, it is an abortion taking place 11 weeks into the pregnancy, and is hard to watch, but I think could have the ability to change some peoples opinion."

i love the optimism of the young.

I have been pro-life my entire life, but didn't start really getting into it til I was about 15, and I am now 21. Sympath for my aunt??? If they are my nieces and nephews that means they are either my brother or sisters kids, not my aunts.

so you're just annoying and self satisfied.

good deal.

it's like wearing a t-shirt against genocide to you. i can scratch my head and wonder what you think you're accomplishing but at least you aren't doing too much harm.

whatever you want to call it, I guess having and growing up around my nieces and nephews who range from 2-18 years old has had an affect on me. Made me realize how much pro-life I really am, and is also the reason why I am going to Michigan State right now and getting a degree in Elementary Education.

Again, say what you want, I can handle a lot of crap on here.

My wife...

The STAUNCH Republican or so she thinks
Had:
1. Obama
2. Biden
3. Clinton

She's all sputtering, how could this be...
I tell her this is not some scientific survey.
But it shows how much she takes into account
personality. She hates, despises, Clinton.

But of course it had no questions about how
important cankles are.

Sorry to interrrupt the fierce abortion
issue which we have visited an infinite number
of times.

Sort of a Neo-Libertarian.....

Or, as your boy Duncan Hunter likes to call them, "Liberal-tarians"

I did have a Republican #2 after all.

If Kucinich wasn't under 5 feet tall - didn't believe in space aliens - and was smart enough to tweak some of his stances and position himself where he will be best suited politically....but still stay true on a few positions he feels strongest about....

He'd be something of a contender!

Heck, he'd be John Edwards.

I think your survey basically equates to
one sitting atop roofs at night
with aluminum foil intricately
folded onto clothes hangers
arranged to form a headress
hoping to see something... anything.

God bless you magma.

I can't watch that,but (to me)that's too late.I think rather than outlawing it,we need to put tighter restrictions on how late a woman can have one.
If it can respond to stimuli,then it's too late.

David Blaine is right around the corner.
Be afraid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYxu_MQSTTY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QQVieHqQtnc

I think abortion in this day and age is too widely used as a form of birth control. Make a mistake, but don't make it twice. JMHO.

Not sure who or what a Tancredo is, but I'm apparently all over it :o

Tancredo first, Hunter second...I must be all about unelectable neverheardofs

Well, I think it's not widely used enough....in fact, sometimes it seems like a tragedy there aren't a lot more.

The abortion issue is meaningless to me. As I see it, it's basically an issue between overly religious types, versus whiny females.

I have no dog in that fight for sure.

You have no dog in the fight over life? Without life, what is there for you?

As for you thinking it's a tragedy there aren't a lot more of them, what a sick thing to say. The tragedy is that women are out there having sex without protection at all and they don't give a shiat. Furthermore, the men don't care either!

I would never have an abortion personally, but I don't hold it against women who feel they have to. Sometimes there are no other options and that is their choice. Believe me, they have to live with that choice.

just read that the #'s are down, have been going down for years now. it's good news.
really no reason to use it as a form of birth control, since so much is widely available and covered by most insurance.
what cracks me up are that some co's don't cover birth control, but do cover viagra. still a mans world.

Yeah, that is good news. I went to school with a girl that had 4 abortions... you would think that swallowing a pill every morning would be easier than that. Don't you think?

you don't have to be religious to think that taking a human life is wrong.

There is no "fight" over "life." Just people who disagree about an issue I could give two shits about.

Your second question seems to be a dressed up way of saying "what if your mom aborted you!?" Gee wiz, I guess thankfully my dad shot his spunk inside of a woman who isn't whiny and was up to the task of having me and trying to do a sort of decent job raising me - even though it might or might not have been convenient for her.

Look, I don't know if mom always wanted me or I was unplanned. I don't care. I don't know if I was a really good swimmer back when I was spunk - but I was good enough to atleast put myself in a position to either be aborted or get born several months later. I did what I had to do - ok?

Turns out, I didn't get to be aborted - sad as it may seem sometime - I was allowed to develop to the point of being born several months later. And I was.

Am I supposed to be pissed if I won a race as a sperm and got no ultimate prize in the end for it? Am I supposed to feel guilty when I masturbate onto a sock - and all my future baby prospects aren't even given the chance to win an event that would lead to them someday becoming something more than a stain on a f'in sock?

But yeah, the world would be a lot better off if we would get to become more overpopulated with kids parents don't want and would be willing to go to desperate measures to get rid of.



Sick as it may be - that's what I think after I'm finished reading through about 80% of the threads.


I see no tragedy in any of that.


No, but I think you just got offended when I called this an issue between tedious morality types and whiny woman. Ok fine, you can be a whiny woman, but one who will always reject abortion. Happy?


Yes - you hold nothing against them because they are pu$$ies taking the easy way out.

Surprisingly, I had Giuliani +16 and Romney +6 as my top choices. Bottom two are more interesting Paul -14 and Clinton -6 -- they would make strange bedfellows.

I am pulling for Fred Thompson vs. Dennis Kucinich. This would guarantee US and A one very hot First Lady. And, if either Ms. T or Ms. K ever pursue presidency, va-va-voom! (this political humor brought to you by an anonymous donor)

Remember to vote in November -- just 10 short months away...

6.5 billion people or close to it on this planet. That's simply not enough. Jesus wants that number to triple.