Street Sense was better at Churchill Downs, he had the innate abilty to run the turns, handle the surface, look better...I don't know how much better to explain it. He was just more formidable when he ran at Churchill.

I don't know what to say. If the red sea doesn't part two different times, he never wins a stakes race at Churchill, yet apparently his "innate ability" to run there still would've carried him to victory. This is beyond strange. He ran terrific races at other tracks, probably better ones than his Churchill races, yet he somehow supposedly didn't look as good doing it, so he was a "lesser horse elsewhere".

Okay we will have to disagree, but it's my opinion that his Kentucky Derby and BC Juvenile wins were his most impressive races given the competition and the manner he won those races.

Life and Death? Id call it a well rated half length

I agree, Grasshopper was what 9-1 that day? He was stepping up to stakes company first time also. Street Sense really had to work to get by and the result was in doubt for the longest time. Not what you would want from a 3/5 favorite.

If you look at my avatar he had the lead from that point on and never relinquished

And to be fair, except for the BC Juvy where he ran on the conveyor belt, he never crushed anybody. His problem was getting to the lead and relaxing, which people blamed his Preakness loss on. He tried to do the same thing in the Travers, which is why Borel had to get after him IMO.

Street Sense was all out to beat Grasshopper in the Travers. It's not even a discussion.

Having said that, the Grasshopper that ran at Saratoga in 2007 was exceptionally good, and Street Sense ran very well to beat him that day.

How exactly did his Derby do that? He ran the same figure he has been running all year.

Then he must've been fast enough to hit the board that day-- as he ran faster than horses that were previously faster than he was. What a conundrum. And, of course, the claim was that he wouldn't hit the board. Simple as that, Bro.

You should really stop by more often. It's brutal here (without you).

The race certainly changed when I Want Revenge scratched, and Dunkirk and Friesan Fire basically were no shows. Without those guys, there weren't many left that would above him. Even then, even the most novice handicapper probably realizes by now a mid 90s synthetic figure is probably as good as 100 on dirt.

i thought his scant victory over any given saturday at tampa was one of his better efforts. then there was the battle with curlin...in both those races, he didn't get the god given parting of the red sea perfect trip, but ran his eyeballs out.
but then, i'm more impressed with rachels preakness than her oaks, so go figure.

He got a pretty good trip at Tampa and as far as I'm concerned he and Curlin both got good setups at Pimlico.

NT

Yeah

The point was never made that this was an exceptional horse but only one that tries hard. There were some, however, who made it a point to base their wagering around this horse NOT hitting the board. Whatever the situation, when he did so, they were exposed; and went to great lengths to 'explain' this.:rolleyes:

P.S. we both knew that Friesan Fire would be a no show, right?

I never considered FF a contender with his cushy trip win followed by a 7 week layoff.

Considering Grasshopper's surrounding form to those two Saratoga starts ... I guess he just loved the dirt there more than the dirt at other places.

He was 3rd at Churchill in an allowance to Roman's Run and Morada Key with an 89 Beyer in his start prior to Saratoga. And was beaten a length by Going Ballistic at 1/5 odds with a 92 Beyer in his start after Saratoga.

Grasshopper won that Saratoga allowance race by 6 in his start prior to the Travers .. the 2nd place finisher Smokeyjonessutton was defeated in his next 13 starts and mercifully retired. 3rd place finisher Mister Triester ran Beyers of 20 points more or less in each of his next 3 starts after the Grasshopper allowance race.

If Street Sense's Travers was bad ... how about his Jim Dandy where Cowtown Cat finished 4th beaten just 3.5 lengths.

I have to keep my place cemented as the resident Street Sense hater and all.

If both of those races were run at CD, I think he wins both and perhaps even comfortably. Given the video evidence of his BC and Derby wins on that track I wonder why there is even a discussion about this. He just catapults off of those turns like no one else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sS6q36Xqcps - Derby
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB6NdbRDVkQ - BC Juv