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  #1  
Old 05-07-2019, 07:02 AM
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SCUDSBROTHER SCUDSBROTHER is offline
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Default Now you PC Dogooders can attack Beyer

Thank You , Andy Beyer .....Dogooder warriors can attack him now, but he is right about how much it bothered those horses....Not much. War of Will was backing up...Couldn't get 10f, but you won't believe me. So, go tell him how you think he's wrong, pc warriors.

"When the stewards at Churchill Downs disqualified Maximum Security after his first-place finish at the Kentucky Derby on Saturday, the decision might have seemed straightforward. The colt committed a foul on the final turn when he crossed in front of War of Will and caused trouble for two other runners. NBC’s slow-motion replays clearly showed the infraction. And plenty of people said, “The rules are the rules, and they should be enforced whether an infraction occurs in a lowly claiming race or the Kentucky Derby.”

Racing fans know issues involving interference and disqualifications are not nearly so simple. In a rough-and-tumble sport, horses regularly bump into or veer in front of one another. In most cases, the stewards take no notice and no action. (Probably nobody would have paid attention if Maximum Security had swerved in front of War of Will on the first turn.)

Stewards disqualify horses when a foul has clearly affected the outcome — or when it’s so egregious that it eliminates other horses from contention. Even then, racing officials are often reluctant to take action in big races, just as basketball or football referees don’t want to decide the NBA Finals or the Super Bowl with a whistle.


After watching video of the 145th Derby over and over, I believe the Churchill Downs stewards made a bad decision when they took down Maximum Security’s number and made Country House the official winner. Yes, there was a foul. No, it didn’t merit a historic disqualification.



On the final turn at Churchill Downs, with Maximum Security in the lead and War of Will behind him, Maximum Security veered into his opponent’s path and caused jockey Tyler Gaffalione to steady his horse. NBC commentator Randy Moss, an astute observer of the sport, said after watching the two horses’ legs get tangled, “It could have been carnage.” (Moss accordingly thought the disqualification was deserved.)

When I watch races and make notes on them, I always try to estimate how much an incident of trouble cost a horse. In this case, I estimated one length. The consequences of Maximum Security’s misdeed could have been catastrophic, but they weren’t. War of Will recovered quickly and resumed his chase of the leader. He had a virtually clear path ahead of him and a quarter mile to catch the front-runner. He accelerated and got within a length of Maximum Security, but the leader repulsed his bid, and in the final sixteenth of a mile War of Will ran out of gas. He faded to finish eighth. Without the trouble, he might have finished fifth. He would not have won.


The other colts who were involved in the chain reaction after Maximum Security’s infraction, 54-1 Long Range Toddy and 71-1 Bodexpress, were going nowhere when the incident occurred. The trouble they encountered surely cost them a higher placing, but they finished 14th and 17th and weren’t going to be contenders under any circumstances.

If Maximum Security had veered into the path of Country House, then defeated him by less than two lengths, there would have been no debate about what the stewards should do. The foul would have cost Country House a legitimate chance to win, and the resultant disqualification would have been prompt and uncontroversial.

But because Maximum Security’s infraction did not affect the outcome, disqualifying the winner was a bit like deciding the NBA Finals on a foul away from the ball.


What purpose was served by disqualifying the winner? If it was to make a statement about the importance of safety in race-riding, the stewards could slap jockey Luis Saez with a significant suspension. But Maximum Security was the best horse in the field, and he deserved to have his name in the record books. Gary and Mary West, who bred and own him, deserved the glory of a Derby victory after 30 years in the business. The bettors who thought Maximum Security was the best horse deserved to cash their wagers.

Certainly, no justice was served by elevating Country House from second place. He had a relatively easy trip in the Derby, sitting outside the leaders and avoiding most of the trouble on the turn. If he couldn’t win the Derby on his own merits, he doesn’t deserve to have the stewards declare him the winner."
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  #2  
Old 05-07-2019, 07:11 AM
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In other words, this 1st loser is never gunna be accepted by myself, Andy Beyer and many others as the legit winner of the Kentucky Derby.



Never.



It was a horrible decision. Who did it help? Not the horses who got fouled. If you think it helped Country Lice, Bill Mott, and Prat, well we shall see. Good luck carrying that stolen property around your neck, Bill. Enjoy.
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  #3  
Old 05-07-2019, 07:17 AM
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Don't duck the Preakness, Bill. Maybe you found a race that your 1st loser can actually win.
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  #4  
Old 05-07-2019, 07:49 AM
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So, are you gunna believe Beyer's opinion on how much it cost them , or are you gunna believe the pity fest started by Casse, and Mott? Mott wanted to get put up and accept stolen property. Casse needed a bail out for his horse not being able to get the 10f distance that day. I don 't have a motive (like those 2 do.) Unless you think not wanting an imposter on the derby winner list is a motive.
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Old 05-07-2019, 07:51 AM
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I’m understanding a bit more why people don’t think there should have been a takedown, but I still disagree.

The only real issue I have with Beyer’s comment is him using Long Range Toddy’s and Bodexpress’s odds in what seems like an attempt to demonstrate they didn’t have a chance to finish well. When you have a 65-1 horse run the 2nd best race in the field, citing the odds doesn’t seem like the best way to make the point.

LRT ran a good race and I suspect he would have finished significantly better than he did, although still probably pretty far back.
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  #6  
Old 05-07-2019, 07:53 AM
Dahoss Dahoss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER View Post
So, are you gunna believe Beyer's opinion on how much it cost them , or are you gunna believe the pity fest started by Casse, and Mott? Mott wanted to get put up and accept stolen property. Casse needed a bail out for his horse not being able to get the 10f distance that day. I don 't have a motive (like those 2 do.) Unless you think not wanting an imposter on the derby winner list is a motive.
I think you should start 10 more threads. I haven’t been this entertained in years.
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Old 05-07-2019, 07:56 AM
Dahoss Dahoss is offline
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I have to say I’m sure if I go back and look Scuds has had major issues with Beyer in the past.

Amazing how ones opinion changes when someone agrees with you.
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  #8  
Old 05-07-2019, 08:14 AM
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R Stable Genius
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  #9  
Old 05-07-2019, 08:50 AM
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ninetoone ninetoone is offline
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Obviously he has no way of knowing that War of Will wouldn't have won or "might have finished fifth"....
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Old 05-07-2019, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by ninetoone View Post
Obviously he has no way of knowing that War of Will wouldn't have won or "might have finished fifth"....
True. I also don’t really buy that either. Notably, a head was the difference between 5th and 4th, so using 5th seems arbitrary. If he could have finished 5th, he clearly could have finished 4th. And we have to admit that the calculation for how many lengths the foul cost WOW is impossible to be exact on.
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  #11  
Old 05-07-2019, 05:43 PM
Rudeboyelvis Rudeboyelvis is offline
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Beyer & Scuds, for the record, are 100% correct.
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Old 05-07-2019, 05:49 PM
Dahoss Dahoss is offline
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Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis View Post
Beyer & Scuds, for the record, are 100% correct.
MAGA!!!!
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  #13  
Old 05-07-2019, 07:56 PM
Rudeboyelvis Rudeboyelvis is offline
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Originally Posted by Dahoss View Post
MAGA!!!!

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  #14  
Old 05-09-2019, 06:06 AM
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SCUDSBROTHER SCUDSBROTHER is offline
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"This message is hidden because Dahoss is on your ignore list."

Old bitch still bitter because I had 1 horse to finish off a $5700 pick 3 , and he had 2 others. "So Gifted" went right to the front, and denied his 2 horses (in a little turf sprint at the Churchill Fall Meet.) I know that was painful for him. I think one of his might of had a will pay of 16K. I said might. I'm sure he will correct it if I am wrong about it. Probably still has the amount stuck in his brain forever.
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Old 05-09-2019, 06:37 AM
Dahoss Dahoss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER View Post
"This message is hidden because Dahoss is on your ignore list."

Old bitch still bitter because I had 1 horse to finish off a $5700 pick 3 , and he had 2 others. "So Gifted" went right to the front, and denied his 2 horses (in a little turf sprint at the Churchill Fall Meet.) I know that was painful for him. I think one of his might of had a will pay of 16K. I said might. I'm sure he will correct it if I am wrong about it. Probably still has the amount stuck in his brain forever.
I literally have no idea what you’re talking about. You think I’m bitter about losing a pick 3 at least 7 years ago because you had it? Wow. That’s HILARIOUS.

I’m mocking you because you’re an unhinged moron acting like he’s never watched a horse race before. You’ve started two threads which are the internet equivalent of the guy on the subway screaming to himself about the aliens that are coming.

Instead of a little self reflection, you think I’m bitter about a pick 3 from I don’t even remember when that I probably forgot about an hour later? That’s awesome.

The scary thing is YOU remember that. I didn’t post here for 6 years and you’ve been holding that in? Glad you got it out finally. Seasoned horseplayers change the page after missing a score. You should try it sometime instead of acting like such a bitch.
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  #16  
Old 05-09-2019, 06:45 AM
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SCUDSBROTHER SCUDSBROTHER is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis View Post
Beyer & Scuds, for the record, are 100% correct.
Well, if they had a remedy that made sense, then, I'd agree with them.

The jockey on Max didn't cause this. So, right there, their claim of dq'n the horse in an effort to promote safety is asinine. Horses are going to do stuff like what this horse did. DQ'N this horse didn't change that. So, if a jockey didn't cause this, then why are they so looking to punish someone? What remedy did that offer War of Will and Toddy? 1 place better? Still aren't getting money , are they? So, who did this help? It helped the 2nd place horse get something he didn't deserve. That's a lovely thing to teach kids . Isn't it? Don't have to work for a Derby. One can just get one by taking advantage of another's misery. If these 2 horses that were fouled weren't so bitch made, they wouldn't of thrown in the towel. They'd of been able to go the full 10f, and get 4th , or 5th. Then, then, the DQ would make sense. Moving one or both of those poor bitch-made victims up a spot would be an actual remedy. It would actually help them gets something of value. From what I can see, this dq was really done to satisfy sadists that wanted to punish someone (even though no human was to blame.) They wanted to punish the horse. Like the horse is gunna now learn from this, and not doing again. You really taught him a lesson, folks. I guess it gets the PETA people off their back, because PETA people surely think the horse couldn't of made a mistake without a human pushing him to do it.


I'm willing to back dq's if they can fix a wrong. They usually do offer a remedy for an injustice mainly caused by a human. This dq doesn't do that. It's just punitive for the sake of being punitive. There is zero teaching going on with this dq. The horse caused it on his own, and he is not going to traffic school. He can't get the teaching moment that they are so so so damn craving to give someone. This is, mainly, just a bunch of sadists enjoying punishing people. So, to them this dq makes perfect sense, because they damn sure feel better now.
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Old 05-09-2019, 06:57 AM
Dahoss Dahoss is offline
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Today I learned you only DQ if the jockey caused it. Those must be the rules at Creedmore Hospital Racecourse.
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  #18  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:07 AM
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SCUDSBROTHER SCUDSBROTHER is offline
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Uh, you're mocking me (someone you think is a moron) because you have nothing better to do with the rest of your life, loser.

Nobody on here gunna:

... 1st, lose thousands of dollars to my horse, then........

See me collect the $5700.....

and forget about it.


Now that is not happening.


Never happened.

You remember that.

You didn't deny it. because others on here saw it take place (although that lush from Chicago might be dead by now.)
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  #19  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:18 AM
Dahoss Dahoss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER View Post
Uh, you're mocking me (someone you think is a moron) because you have nothing better to do with the rest of your life, loser.

Nobody on here gunna:

... 1st, lose thousands of dollars to my horse, then........

See me collect the $5700.....

and forget about it.


Now that is not happening.


Never happened.

You remember that.

You didn't deny it. because others on here saw it take place (although that lush from Chicago might be dead by now.)
Dude....everyone is laughing at you. You’re a clown.

I didn’t deny it because I don’t remember it. I hadn’t posted here in at least 6 years before a few weeks ago. You think I remember losing a pick 3 from that long ago? And losing it to a horse you liked....so I’m bitter towards you about it?

Hilarious.

Get back in your straight jacket and have some jello. Nice last sentence too. At least I’m not on ignore I guess. Weird you’d lie about that.
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  #20  
Old 05-09-2019, 07:24 AM
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SCUDSBROTHER SCUDSBROTHER is offline
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https://www.equibase.com/premium/cha...05&cy=USA&rn=8
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