Another breakdown at Turfway

[paisjpq]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

You misunderstood him. He didn't mean the horses breaking down was great stuff. He was sarcastically saying that polytrack is great stuff.

thank you rupert...Yes I did misunderstand Mike's words...probably because of the fact that he referred to the horses as snappers...as someone who has heard the sound of a horses' bone breaking from 2 feet away this absolutely turned my stomach and I still find it hard to believe that Mike would defend his use of the word. One cannot simultaneously profess to be a champion of these animals and callously drop disgusting references like that IMO...the 2 just don't go together.
I apologize for any 'trouble' that ensued while I was at work...but that was not and has never been my intent.
Furthur, I have never posted on another forum in my life so Blue Eyes is barking up the wrong tree there.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Richi you guys who use pedigree to judge a horse who has already run faster on the numbers than 99% of horses who will start from that crop just lose me.
His debut was VERY nice, and I don't think they overpaid based on that race.

I loved that horse at the sale, but I wouldn't pay $800,000 for him. We would have gone up to about $350,000 or so for that horse if he would have passed our vet. He didn't even pass our vet.

By the way, I'm not particularly big on pedigree when I go to a sale. The main thing that I'm interested in is a horse's ability and you can tell quite a bit about a horse's ability from watching them work. That being said, I'm still not going to pay $800,000 for a horse with no pedigree. Even if he's a really good horse and he wins a couple of stakes races and makes a few hundred thouand dollars, you will still lose money on him. The horse would have to be a super-horse for you to make money on him.

Originally Posted by paisjpq

thank you rupert...Yes I did misunderstand Mike's words...probably because of the fact that he referred to the horses as snappers...as someone who has heard the sound of a horses' bone breaking from 2 feet away this absolutely turned my stomach and I still find it hard to believe that Mike would defend his use of the word. One cannot simultaneously profess to be a champion of these animals and callously drop disgusting references like that IMO...the 2 just don't go together.
I apologize for any 'trouble' that ensued while I was at work...but that was not and has never been my intent.
Furthur, I have never posted on another forum in my life so Blue Eyes is barking up the wrong tree there.

Beth its a slang term that many have heard at the track.
You watch a race and you hear a guy say "the 2 snapped".
Its ugly and I myself get sickened at horses breaking down.
I guess its one of those terms you hear a lot and forget that its gonna offend most people.
I am sorry i used the word, I'm not defending it, there are better ways to put it.
But noone else thought I meant "this is great stuff" and was referring to the horses breaking down.
I think this stuff is an excuse for a lotta guys to continue to overdrill horses(like I said in Cali, a few guys are now on SIX DAY PATTERNS!!!!) and folks are gonna run horses who have no business being on the track because they think Poly will prevent them from breaking down.
I'm sure not rooting for horses to die to say i told you so, that would make me like the scumbag Democrats who root for soldiers to die in Iraq so they can say i told you so, and there isn't anything lower than that.

We need to get one thing straight...Marty Collins has never said that PolyTrack is "maintenance free." Keeneland and Marty Collins have all said the following; "Minimum maintenance is required compared to a conventional dirt track because the Polytrack surface needs less watering and less harrowing." No where in this statement does it state that PolyTrack is "maintenance free." You can get this quote from Marty Collins web site and here is the link: http://www.polytrack.com/advantages.html. Also, if you click on the below link you can view the PowerPoint presentation to the California Horsemen....http://www.polytrack.com/presentation/index.html. You should be not getting any other info from PloyTrack from anywhere else other than Keeneland or Marty Collins.

[The Bid]

Euro

If you are going to buy a horse privately should you get any information from anyone but the seller? Should you have it vetted, jogged, scoped, or just take the sellers word? How about when you buy a used car, just take the sellers word, dont even bother putting it up on a lift? How about with a house, any inspection, or just take the sellers word everything is up to code?? I guess we should just read and believe whatever Collins, or Keeneland says about the track they are selling and making millions on

Originally Posted by The Bid

Euro

If you are going to buy a horse privately should you get any information from anyone but the seller? Should you have it vetted, jogged, scoped, or just take the sellers word? How about when you buy a used car, just take the sellers word? How about with a house, any inspection, or just take the sellers word everything is up to code?? I guess we should just read whatever Collins, or Keeneland says about the track they are selling

I see your point and I agree to a certain extent. However, I was responding to the statement that people have said that Polytrack is "maintenance free." We all know that isn't the case and the creators and the people selling the stuff say that it isn't maintenance free. That is all I am saying.

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I see your point and I agree to a certain extent. However, I was responding to the statement that people have said that Polytrack is "maintenance free." We all know that isn't the case and the creators and the people selling the stuff say that it isn't maintenance free. That is all I am saying.

And you have no vested interest in polytrack either I suppose?

I like Poly and I like dirt and I LOVE turf. I think after Arlington puts in their surface that there should not be anymore synthetic surfaces. Also, breakdowns are still way way down. I think there was like 24 at Turfway between 04 and 05. I think there has been like 7 between 05-06. To me, that is pretty good. The creator of Poly has never said the surface is maintenance free and that it will prevent breakdowns. That is all I am saying. I guess I am pissed cause the Colts got CRUSHED today.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Or the scumbag people that wish stuff like cancer on people if a horse they bet on loses.

Or the lowlifes that worship a staue of a jockey and defend his every ride no matter how bad it is.

Originally Posted by oracle80

And you have no vested interest in polytrack either I suppose?

Absolutely ZERO. I just want what is best for the industry. I see no problem in having a 3rd surface. Do you see a problem with having a 3rd surface?

Originally Posted by eurobounce

I like Poly and I like dirt and I LOVE turf. I think after Arlington puts in their surface that there should not be anymore synthetic surfaces. Also, breakdowns are still way way down. I think there was like 24 at Turfway between 04 and 05. I think there has been like 7 between 05-06. To me, that is pretty good. The creator of Poly has never said the surface is maintenance free and that it will prevent breakdowns. That is all I am saying. I guess I am pissed cause the Colts got CRUSHED today.

Colts are in bad shape, they picked the wrong time to go cold. And it looks like San Diego is cruising towards a one seed.
Bengals are white hot right now, they could be this years version of Pittsburgh(of course Pittsburgh didn't have all the arrests but you get the point).

Originally Posted by eurobounce

Absolutely ZERO. I just want what is best for the industry. I see no problem in having a 3rd surface. Do you see a problem with having a 3rd surface?

I do if people choose it due to erroneous propaganda and if people aren't allowed to complain about it(like The Bid said) and tell it like they see it.

Originally Posted by oracle80

Colts are in bad shape, they picked the wrong time to go cold. And it looks like San Diego is cruising towards a one seed.
Bengals are white hot right now, they could be this years version of Pittsburgh(of course Pittsburgh didn't have all the arrests but you get the point).

Well The Bengals hold a special place with me because I cheered for them before Indy got the Colts. Yes, they are hot right now and they are catching the Colts and Broncos at the right time. I think they could make some noise in the playoffs. But Indy gave up 250 plus yards rushing on the first half.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by The Bid

I gotcha Rupert.

I dont understand why a track like Hollywood wouldnt just reinstall a conventional dirt track. I think all of these tracks jumped the gun on mass installation of synthetic surfaces. Like Oracle said.... I think they are fine to train over, I just dont care for the racing over them. What really pisses me off is the tracks cracking down on the trainers to the point they cant speak their mind. If they are going to have a polytrack they need to take the trainers opinions to heart, work together to perfect the surface. When Poly was first laid at Turfway the jockeys bitched about the kick back, they wanted it watered down....managment basically said if you dont like it dont ride here. That is the attitude from Turfway, whether the people in here want to believe it or not.

They definitely needed to do something out here in Soutern California. They definitely needed to put in new surfaces at all the tracks here. Maybe they should have just put in new dirt surfaces. I don't understand why it would be so hard to put in a good, safe dirt surface. I guess they just weren't very confident that they could get it right with new dirt surfaces. I think they were more confident that they could do it right with artifical surfaces. I think they thought it would be much easier too.

Originally Posted by oracle80

I do if people choose it due to erroneous propaganda and if people aren't allowed to complain about it(like The Bid said) and tell it like they see it.

I agree-feel free to complain but people should not be saying that the people who created and market this stuff are saying that it is maintenance free and will prevent breakdowns.

[The Bid]

I should invent a paper mache surface bound together by miniture chainlinks and jello, sell it as an alternative surface to polytrack. If I could sit down with Rogers Beasley and tell him he could make a few million selling it I bet Keeneland would be trying to install it somewhere by the end of the week.

[SCUDSBROTHER]

Ron Ellis has had a poor meet at HWD (so far.)I think he has won only 1 race(if I am wrong,please correct me.) The 1st thing he did(when he came on to talk on TVG) is compliment the track.He said the training track was muddy,but the main track was great(after almost a half inch of overnite rain.)Sure,he would like to have won 4 or 5 races this meet,but this trainer is a guy who really does indeed put the horses 1st.Obviously,he thinks this track is the best thing for his horses(whether they have been winning on it,or not.)

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

They definitely needed to do something out here in Soutern California. They definitely needed to put in new surfaces at all the tracks here. Maybe they should have just put in new dirt surfaces. I don't understand why it would be so hard to put in a good, safe dirt surface. I guess they just weren't very confident that they could get it right with new dirt surfaces. I think they were more confident that they could do it right with artifical surfaces. I think they thought it would be much easier too.

yeah easier, and I wonder if anyone ever gets a nice Christmas present for steering a 12 million dollar contract someplace.
Not much money in dirt you know?
Thats my point Richi, How come for years noone at these tracks "cared about" the horse welfare and just didn't spend 1/4 the cost of the poly on a new safe dirt surface?
My suspicions stem from the fact that as soon as there was a whole lotta cash in it, people all of sudden cared so much.
How come keeneland never put in a new dirt surface for YEARS to replace the surface that was very criticized?
All of a sudden they cared? And it had nothing to do with money?
I'm willing to bet that a lotta folks get some nice stocking stuffers this year.

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Please when it comes to being a lowlife I think you have that market cornered. Big difference in defending a ride or two, to wishing a disease on people, don't ya think?

As if you have any idea what you are talking about.

[The Bid]

Where is Ron Ellis stabled?