A question on Easy Goer...

[slotdirt]

Fewer posters have contributed as much quality information in as short a time as bravado. Well done!

[blackthroatedwind]

I love these figs that Bravado is posting. It is a great reminder of what a good horse genuinely looked like. Seeing Cigar's numbers is very interesting, as at the time everyone that used numbers recognized him as a good horse, and very consistent, but over all not supremely fast. When you compare him to some of the other horses Bravado has posted that is obvious. The problem is that these days very mediocre good horses get annointed as superstars. There was Smarty Jones, a relatively slow good horses ( save his LAST win...the Preakness ), and then there may be the worst offender of all time...Afleet Alex. People talk about him with hushed tones, and he was a nice horse, just slow. Would either of those two horses have run some really " fast " races had they stuck around, possibly, but also quite possibly they would have been swallowed up as perhaps some others improved. I highly doubt Afleet Alex would have had an easy time with the Flower Alley of the summer of 2005. On the other hand, Seattle Slew was " slow " as a 3YO and it wasn't until he was really tested, in the Fall of his 4YO season, that we found out how good he really was.

The point....stop annointing superstars based on a few races and keep some perspective on what we are seeing. These numbers of horses from the last 20 years offer some great perspective. I would like to see Precisionist's numbers, and the distances he was running, at his peak ( and before his awful unretirement ). Then there was Turkoman. Man, these were GOOD horses, and they raced.

[alysheba4]

i wonder what alysheba beyer was the race prior to b cup? i believe he ran a sub 59 under 130 lbs ....... that horses 1988 campaign was freakish.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by alysheba4

i wonder what alysheba beyer was the race prior to b cup? i believe he ran a sub 59 under 130 lbs ....... that horses 1988 campaign was freakish.

His win in the Woodward, over Forty Niner, was awesome. I think that's the race you are talking about. Yeah, he was another horse that would put these paper tigers to shame.

[alysheba4]

well thats race was a track record at the time, but i believe it was his next start, the medowlands cup?? he went 1.58 and change carrying 130

[Slewbopper]

Is that you Darrell?

Dinver

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by alysheba4

well thats race was a track record at the time, but i believe it was his next start, the medowlands cup?? he went 1.58 and change carrying 130

I was at both of those races. The Meadowlands Cup was a small field and he dominated Slew City Slew but the Woodward was a full field of about eight decent horses. I do recall at the Meadowlands that night that McCarron and Pincay dominated the night, finishing one-two a number of times, and not always at shot prices.

Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind

His win in the Woodward, over Forty Niner, was awesome. I think that's the race you are talking about. Yeah, he was another horse that would put these paper tigers to shame.

Damnit, you guys beat me to this. I was just gonna bring Alysheba as well.
Imagine what he would have done to the most recent classic field?
Now thats another great example of a racehorse, and BTW also beat me to mentioning Turkoman. Tell you what, the most incredible race Turkoman ever ran was a losing effort at Saratoga, the 7f race where you never saw a horse in your entire life come down the stretch like he did falling one length short of Groovy, and Groovy was sensational sprinting.
Thsi whole discussion the past few weeks has me realizing how lucky I was to have seen the horses that I have seen, and how little I appreciated them at the time.

Originally Posted by alysheba4

i wonder what alysheba beyer was the race prior to b cup? i believe he ran a sub 59 under 130 lbs ....... that horses 1988 campaign was freakish.

That was just a scary display of talent, and I don't think it was the Woodward. I think that was the mile and a quarter race on that dead slow track where he broke two minutes anyway(!;59 and change I believe) despite not getting "his setup" and carrying a couch on his back.
Just crazy good, I wonder If I'll ever see another performance like that again.

Originally Posted by Bravado2112

Holy Bull
Olympic - 117

Woodward - 116
Travers - 115
Haskell - 115
Dwyer - 119
Met Mile - 122
Derby - 85
Bluegrass - 113
Fla Derby - 115
FOY - 57
Hutch - 108

In Reality - 93
Futurity - 103
Alw - 91
MSW - 101

Cigar
BC Classic - 115
JC Gold Cup - 115
Woodward - 116
Pacific Classic - 111
Arlington - 117
Mass Cap - 112
Donn - 117

BC Classic - 117
JC Gold Cup - 111
Woodward - 111
Hol Gold Cup - 118
Mass Cap - 117
Pim Special - 114
Oaklawn - 121
GP Handicap - 116
Donn - 114
Alw - 108

Thanks Bravado, very sincerely thanks.
Imagine where the Bull was headed had he not been injured?
DC's race the other day was hyped as the greatest thing since sliced bread, and look what the Bull did as a THREE YEAR OLD in the SUMMER AND EARLY FALL!!!!
Holy Bull's Woodward was twice the race that Discreet Cat's mile was.

Bravado I don't know who you are but PLEASE come back and give us Alysheba's numbers. I have to see those.

[alysheba4]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Bravado I don't know who you are but PLEASE come back and give us Alysheba's numbers. I have to see those.

....... sheba4 has horrible numbers........he is a digrace to the capping colony, it was like a 1 legged man in an ass kicking contest this year

Originally Posted by alysheba4

....... sheba4 has horrible numbers........he is a digrace to the capping colony, it was like a 1 legged man in an ass kicking contest this year

LOL!!
I wasn't referring to you, I was referring to your namesake.
I'd love to see his numbers and the number on that incredible Belmont race.

[alysheba4]

yeah, J.V.B at the time considered that win at historic belmont park as big as the derby victory........ he was so happy the great fans from new york got to see their favorite horse bring his a game, against the great and underrated forty niner.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Damnit, you guys beat me to this. I was just gonna bring Alysheba as well.
Imagine what he would have done to the most recent classic field?
Now thats another great example of a racehorse, and BTW also beat me to mentioning Turkoman. Tell you what, the most incredible race Turkoman ever ran was a losing effort at Saratoga, the 7f race where you never saw a horse in your entire life come down the stretch like he did falling one length short of Groovy, and Groovy was sensational sprinting.
Thsi whole discussion the past few weeks has me realizing how lucky I was to have seen the horses that I have seen, and how little I appreciated them at the time.

Mike,
I saw you mentioned Groovy.
Sad to say, Jose Martin passed away recently. RIP.
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/tod...67952&subsec=1

[Slewbopper]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Damnit, you guys beat me to this.
Thsi whole discussion the past few weeks has me realizing how lucky I was to have seen the horses that I have seen, and how little I appreciated them at the time.

So true. I have been following this sport since '77. It seemed like I took for granted there was always an exciting horse in training that would dance all the dances. The best horse to run in the last 8 years or so is probably Ghostzapper and he went to the post 11 times in 4 seasons.

Originally Posted by Slewbopper

So true. I have been following this sport since '77. It seemed like I took for granted there was always an exciting horse in training that would dance all the dances. The best horse to run in the last 8 years or so is probably Ghostzapper and he went to the post 11 times in 4 seasons.

I guess I have to admit that I also forgot how lucky I was to have seen horses like the ones we are talking about.
Lots of Kool Aid being drank this year in regards to a few "superhorses".
I think we've talked about some REAL superhorses on this thread, and I hope I get to see some more.
I was younger when these horses ran, and I guess I took for granted that what i was witnessing was always gonna be there in some form.
I wonder how many folks who have read this thread and thought about Formal Gold, Skip Away, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Easy Goer,etc and saw their figs and got red faced about buying the hype on a few horses lately.
Lets just hope we get to see some horses like that again, and more importantly, lets see some rivalries like these horses had.
They produced exciting races and thrills and chills up the spine. Not getting a whole lot of that lately.

[Downthestretch55]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I guess I have to admit that I also forgot how lucky I was to have seen horses like the ones we are talking about.
Lots of Kool Aid being drank this year in regards to a few "superhorses".
I think we've talked about some REAL superhorses on this thread, and I hope I get to see some more.
I was younger when these horses ran, and I guess I took for granted that what i was witnessing was always gonna be there in some form.
I wonder how many folks who have read this thread and thought about Formal Gold, Skip Away, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Easy Goer,etc and saw their figs and got red faced about buying the hype on a few horses lately.
Lets just hope we get to see some horses like that again, and more importantly, lets see some rivalries like these horses had.
They produced exciting races and thrills and chills up the spine. Not getting a whole lot of that lately.

mike,
I was going to start a thread titled "Best Rivalries". Thought about it.
My vote would go to Affirmed and Alydar...
Dems da ones that got me hooked.

[MLC]

This is a great thread. I have followed the sport since the 60's and it's good to know that people appreciate the thoroughbreds that ran more than once a month and faced fields larger than 4 or 5 other horses. A couple of months ago, when Bernardinimania was rampant, some posters suggested that he be considered among the greats or would soon be. Looking at some of the figures you folks are posting should make people realize what it really takes for a horse to be considered great and the horses and races that stick in your mind and make you appreciate the sport.

[brianwspencer]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Lots of Kool Aid being drank this year in regards to a few "superhorses".
I think we've talked about some REAL superhorses on this thread, and I hope I get to see some more.
I was younger when these horses ran, and I guess I took for granted that what i was witnessing was always gonna be there in some form.
I wonder how many folks who have read this thread and thought about Formal Gold, Skip Away, Holy Bull, Cigar, Alysheba, Sunday Silence, Easy Goer,etc and saw their figs and got red faced about buying the hype on a few horses lately.

Even with all the talk about the youngsters jumping to call any 'now' horse a great horse or a superhorse, I will say in all honesty that even though I was still relatively a kid (edit: after reading what i wrote...i was not relatively a kid...i WAS a kid), I understood that Skip Away was great when I was watching him on TV.

I understood, having followed Cigar's streak, that I was in the presence of greatness when I went to the Arlington-Citation challenge because i made my mom take me even when she didn't want to brave the crowds that day I forced her to.

I honestly think that Skip Away is the best horse I've ever seen in the time I've been interested in this sport -- with Cigar and Ghostzapper close seconds.