Perfect Trip Picture Thread

[GBBob]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

That's all I used.

It doesn't take long at all. Just save the picture, draw a few lines or circles on it like the NFL commentators do, and save the updated pic.

Do you say "BAM", when you're circling a horse?

[RolloTomasi]

Dare And Go never won again - his 116 Beyer that day regressing to 105, and 92 in his next two starts.

I think you're being a little too dramatic in calling Dare And Go "wildly inferior", at least as far as Siphon and Dramatic Gold (who were also boxcar odds in that race) are concerned.

Dare And Go ventured to the post sporadically in the previous 18 months prior to the Pacific Classic. Having placed in three Grade 1's on turf (Secretariat, Hollywood Derby, Hollywood Turf Cup) at 3 after being imported from France, DAG was switched to the main track for the Strub series. He was a good 3rd in his dirt debut in a wet San Fernando, won by the versatile Grade 1 winner Wekiva Springs, jumping a piece of cellophane at the 1/16th pole (ironically dropped by jockey Chris Antley at the start of the race). Second was Dramatic Gold, coming off a placing in the BC Classic and soon to go down with a broken leg following the Strub. In 4th was comebacking Strodes Creek, 2nd in the previous year's Derby. Dare And Go won his next out the Strub, going 10f, over the same group, and followed up with a 3rd to Urgent Request and Best Pal in the Big Cap before going on the shelf with a hind end injury.

He returned the next winter at SA and was a modest 3rd to stablemate Soul of the Matter and Alphabet Soup in the San Antonio. He was scratched the morning of the Big Cap due to injury, but returned quickly to take a minor stakes. He ran without benefit of a prep in the Hollywood Gold Cup a few months later, and like everything else in there, was up-ended by a loose on the lead Siphon.

To be fair, his post-Pacific Classic win is not as cut-and-dry as you'd make it. He was banged around on the first turn in the Goodwood and still managed third. The trouble was significant enough to see the disqualification of actual first place finisher, and subsequent BC Classic winner, Alphabet Soup down to 3rd.

His final career start was the BC Classic, coupled with Atticus, that saw him finish midpack. He emerged from the race with a knee injury that led to his retirement. That race, and the Hollywood Gold Cup were 2 of only 3 races where Dare And Go finished worse than 3rd in a 22 race career.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Dare And Go never won again - his 116 Beyer that day regressing to 105, and 92 in his next two starts.

I think you're being a little too dramatic in calling Dare And Go "wildly inferior", at least as far as Siphon and Dramatic Gold (who were also boxcar odds in that race) are concerned.

Siphon was 6/1 and Dramatic Gold 25/1.

In his most recent start before the Pacific Classic - Siphon beat Dare And Go by 7.5 lengths when he won the Hollywood Gold Cup (Dare And Go was 5th)

A month and a half later, Siphon was part of that 3 way pace battle and finished 10.5 lengths behind Dare And Go in the Pac Classic.

Basically, in a matter of one start and six weeks time, there was an 18 length swing between those two horses.

Siphon went wire-to-wire unpressured in that Hollywood Gold Cup while Dare And Go stalked from 2nd and backed up to finish 5th.

As for Dramatic Gold, he was 2nd to Cigar the start prior, and won a pair of important Graded Stakes with Alphabet Soup 2nd and Formal Gold 2nd in the two following starts.

Obviously, his 18.5 length defeat with an 88 Beyer sticks out like a sore thumb in between a figure of 111 one start prior and a 110 and 111 two starts after.

Dare And Go was clearly the lesser of those four horses in my opinion.

[RolloTomasi]

You point out DAG's perfect setup in the Pac Classic, but didn't Siphon get the trip in the Gold Cup (it was a major upset at the time)? I already mentioned the injury-plagued Dare And Go came into that race off a brief layoff, so that shift in lengths between the two is double sided.

Going by the results of the '95 Strub Series, there wasn't much seperating Dramatic Gold and Dare And Go.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Dramatic Gold beat him the start prior to the Strub - and was the shorter price.

You won't at least concede he was a little better? It's very obvious Cigar and Siphon were vastly superior.

The reason why that three way speed duel developed was because Jerry Bailey feared if Siphon got an easy lead again he might not be able to catch him with Cigar.

However, Nakatani sent Dramatic Gold to try and get a position outside of Siphon where they could slow it down together and keep Cigar boxed in.

Bailey had to either concede a tactical edge or use up Cigar in a duel with the two best rivals in the race.

With Bailey choosing to do the latter - he basically made it equally tough trips for all 3 horses - but negated any edge the only horse he feared would have had on him. Obviously he regretted doing that because of the result.

[RolloTomasi]

Dare And Go beat Dramatic Gold by open lengths (going 10f) in the Strub. The San Fernando came on a wet track in the former's dirt debut (which Dramatic Gold didn't win). He was at least as good as that horse when healthy.

As far as Siphon goes, he maybe quicker on speed figures, but that didn't make him a dominant runner. Aside from his Big Cap win (which like the Gold Cup was unexpected--Gentlemen was the main hope in that one), he didn't collect any other major wins.

For the most part, all 3 horses were basically top class bridesmaids.

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS

The reason why that three way speed duel developed was because Jerry Bailey feared if Siphon got an easy lead again he might not be able to catch him with Cigar. .

If Cigar's heir apparent at the time hadnt run in the Gold Cup, the Pac Classic duel probably would never have happened...

[cmorioles]

Cigar was also a declining horse at the time. He finished his career one for his last four.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by KirisClown

If Cigar's heir apparent at the time hadnt run in the Gold Cup, the Pac Classic duel probably would never have happened...

Quick, name two other Paulson runners that did well at Oaklawn aside from Cigar and Geri.

Hint- Both ran in the BC Mile and the BC Classic. Both won the Razorback. One won the Oaklawn Handicap. One won the Pimlico Special. One was 3rd in the Hollywood Gold Cup. One won the Hollywood Gold Cup. One was a champion. Both were imported. One won the French 2000 Guineas. One was Indian Skimmer's pacesetter and outran its stablemate when facing the legendary Nashwan in the Eclipse.

[cmorioles]

I don't know the colts you are referring to, but Azeri did well there.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Dare And Go beat Dramatic Gold by open lengths (going 10f) in the Strub.

Dare And Go got a 6lbs weight break from Dramatic Gold - and made a clear early lead through slow fractions and won by just 1.25 lengths.

According to the chart: "Dare And Go took command from the start setting moderate early fractions, raced on the rail with the lead throughout, responded to the challenge of Dramatic Gold and prevailed in game fashion."

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

As far as Siphon goes, he maybe quicker on speed figures, but that didn't make him a dominant runner. Aside from his Big Cap win (which like the Gold Cup was unexpected--Gentlemen was the main hope in that one), he didn't collect any other major wins.

For the most part, all 3 horses were basically top class bridesmaids.

Siphon ran a Beyer of 115 or more 6 times. Won 12 of 25 lifetime and made over $3 million in earnings.

He won the Santa Anita Handicap over a field that included Formal Gold and Gentleman - two of the best older males I've ever seen when right. He won the Hollywood Gold Cup with a 117 Beyer.

He was not a bridesmaid at all to me - he just happened to catch some outstanding horses on there good days when he was 2nd.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Cigar was also a declining horse at the time. He finished his career one for his last four.

Not really - his narrow loss to Skip Away after his 117 Beyer Woodward win was very good..as was his close 3rd place finish (beaten just a neck) in the BC Classic where he was caught wide on both turns over a track where the rail was pretty good all day long.

Cigar faced a lot of easy fields and got many good trips from Bailey throughout his streak. At the end, he ran into some tougher horses and some tougher trips - but his figures stayed very consistant throughout it all.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

I don't know the colts you are referring to, but Azeri did well there.

Yeah, the other day I noticed she won 3 straight Apple Blossoms.

What mare won 3 Matriarchs and 3 Ramonas and came within a neck of winning 3 Beverly Hills?

[KirisClown]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Quick, name two other Paulson runners that did well at Oaklawn aside from Cigar and Geri.

Hint- Both ran in the BC Mile and the BC Classic. Both won the Razorback. One won the Oaklawn Handicap. One won the Pimlico Special. One was 3rd in the Hollywood Gold Cup. One won the Hollywood Gold Cup. One was a champion. Both were imported. One won the French 2000 Guineas. One was Indian Skimmer's pacesetter and outran its stablemate when facing the legendary Nashwan in the Eclipse.

Im not sure...

But, I know K One King won the Oaklawn Handicap for them...

[RolloTomasi]

According to the chart: "Dare And Go took command from the start setting moderate early fractions, raced on the rail with the lead throughout, responded to the challenge of Dramatic Gold and prevailed in game fashion."

So, when he comes from off the pace he gets a perfect setup; and he gets an easy lead when he goes wire-to-wire, beating Dramatic Gold (basically a frontrunner himself) on the square? Who is this horse's sire, Lucky McFortunate?

Forget it, he was a phony.


Siphon ran a Beyer of 115 or more 6 times. Won 12 of 25 lifetime and made over $3 million in earnings.

A large chunk of which came from running 2nd in the Dubai World Cup, Hollywood Gold Cup, and Pacific Classic.

He won the Santa Anita Handicap over a field that included Formal Gold and Gentleman - two of the best older males I've ever seen when right. He won the Hollywood Gold Cup with a 117 Beyer.

Aside from the BC Classic, wasn't that Formal Gold's only off-the-board effort. Obviously he didn't ship particularly well (nor did he favor 10f).

He was not a bridesmaid at all to me - he just happened to catch some outstanding horses on there good days when he was 2nd.

He was at best a souped up version of Ruhlmann...maybe on par with Bertrando.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by KirisClown

Im not sure...

But, I know K One King won the Oaklawn Handicap for them...

I forgot about that one. Good answer.

1989: French import Blushing John won the Razorback, Pimlico Special, Hollywood Gold Cup, and was 3rd to Sunday Silence and Easy Goer in the BC Classic to earn the Handicap Eclipse.

1990: English import Opening Verse flops in the Strub series but wins the Razorback and Oaklawn Handicap before running 3rd in the Hollywood Gold Cup to Criminal Type and Sunday Silence. Well beaten in Unbridled's BC Classic (that reminds me, both ran horrible in the Meadowlands Cup). A year later he won the BC Mile back on turf.

[The Indomitable DrugS]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

So, when he comes from off the pace he gets a perfect setup; and he gets an easy lead when he goes wire-to-wire, beating Dramatic Gold (basically a frontrunner himself) on the square? Who is this horse's sire, Lucky McFortunate?

Forget it, he was a phony.

Dare And Go was 2-for-9 in Graded Stake races on dirt.

I merely quoted what the chart said in his Strub win - where he reversed a head-to-head loss to Dramatic Gold in his prior start.

As for his Pacific Classic win - you are entitled to your opinon that he didn't have a favorable trip.

However, don't pretend like he was some horse who always got a great trip and never had an excuse.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

Cigar was also a declining horse at the time. He finished his career one for his last four.

While I agree, I'm convinced had Cigar had the trip of Alphabet Soup (who was one lane inside of Cigar) in the 96 Breeders Cup and Alphabet Soup had the trip of Cigar the results would have been reversed. The outside was not to be the place that day as the track was heavily biased that day, to give one an example Mt. Sassasfras who rode the rail for the complete 1 1/4 was beaten by no more than a long neck in 4th and though he did go on to win that Gr.1 at GP under Bailey ironically, he shouldn't have even been in the picture. Lit De Justice, Jewell Princess, Boston Harbour all rode the rail that day. All things considered I thought Cigar ran a hell of a race to only be beaten by a neck.

[CSC]

Originally Posted by cmorioles

It is very expensive. You can do pretty much all the same stuff with the free program The Gimp.

thanks for the tip

[Travis Stone]

Originally Posted by CSC

While I agree, I'm convinced had Cigar had the trip of Alphabet Soup (who was one lane inside of Cigar) in the 96 Breeders Cup and Alphabet Soup had the trip of Cigar the results would have been reversed. The outside was not to be the place that day as the track was heavily biased that day

It was an extremely rail biased track, and Cigar still dug-in tremendously despite the horrendously wide trip. He only lost by a half-length. That shows what type of horse he was.