Three New BC Races - Page 2

blackthroatedwind · #21 12-10-2007, 10:45 AM

The real reason the BC is adding these races is to attempt to increase handle and therefore revenue.

Noble intentions.....don't ya think?

sumitas · #22 12-10-2007, 10:49 AM

The JCGC , having been shortened to the more common distance of 1¼ miles in 1990, has reduced its distinctiveness.

The race was once run (1976 through 1989) at 1½ miles, but from 1921 through 1975 it was two miles long.

Maybe a return to the 2 mile distance or possibly a 1 5/8 will bring back some of the glamour of this great race.

Sightseek · #23 12-10-2007, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumitas

The JCGC , having been shortened to the more common distance of 1¼ miles in 1990, has reduced its distinctiveness.

The race was once run (1976 through 1989) at 1½ miles, but from 1921 through 1975 it was two miles long.

Maybe a return to the 2 mile distance or possibly a 1 5/8 will bring back some of the glamour of this great race.

When Malibu Moonshine wins it?

ArlJim78 · #24 12-10-2007, 10:52 AM

if this were April first I'd be convinced this was a joke.
was there a groundswell of support for these races?
its baffling really why they'd want to water down the other races.
plus the "win and you're in" nonsense.
It really has become a joke.

#25 12-10-2007, 10:54 AM

In other news, the DRF has hired BBB as handicapper-in-chief.

sumitas · #26 12-10-2007, 11:00 AM

At this time who are the pre-eminent "marathon" horses that may factor in the new 12F division ?

#27 12-10-2007, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sumitas

At this time who are the pre-eminent "marathon" horses that may factor in the new 12F division ?

A few shippers from Beulah and The Green Monkey.

sumitas · #28 12-10-2007, 11:05 AM

you Are Dodging The Question.

King Glorious · #29 12-10-2007, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I actually think that a dirt race at 12f would be a good thing. I know that for the first few years, it's going to be very hard to watch because we simply don't have that many horses that can run well at that distance anymore. But I think that if there is a BC race for them and if there were to be a series in place throughout the year, say 6-8 12f races with purses of $500k or more in each and a points bonus attatched to it, in a few years, there would be horses to fill these races. Today, there is no incentive to breed these kinds of horses because the races for them don't exist. But create a market for them and I think that more breeders would look to fill it.

Looks like they are headed towards doing this. I think a bunch of people are looking only at the short term here and thinking about how ugly this race will be and what it's going to be like for the first few years. It's going to be brutal, no doubt about it. I do think, however, that over the coming years, it's going to start getting better. I remember when the JCGC was a 12f race and I know it was a 16f race for a long time before that. I know that races like the Brooklyn and the Woodward used to be run at 12f also. I remember people complaining when the JCGC was reduced to 10f and when the Vosburgh was reduced to 6.5f then to 6f. I hear the uproar when people like myself suggest that the TC races be reduced in distance. People keep saying that we are giving in to the breeders and making the horses into an even less sturdy breed. I believe that is true. But I kind of feel like it's contradictory to complain about the "woosification" of the horses then complain again when someone is at least trying to turn it around. I also believe that the BC is doing a good thing here in trying to turn that around. The first move had to be made by someone. The breeders weren't going to do it. They didn't have any incentive at all to breed horses to run longer distances when there were no races to run them. Now, they will have some spots so now there will be at least a little incentive. I applaud the BC for making the first move here. They've created a market for breeders to fill. But it's going to take time. I don't think anyone that is into the game and knows what's really going on is going to mistake the horses that win this race as true champions. We know it's going to be won for a while by the plodders that have no speed and can't compete with others at normal distances. Horses like Jazil, for instance. For a person like me, one who's usually looking at the negative side of the sport and trying to look for ideas that could make it better, I think this is a step in the right direction. A baby step but a step nonetheless.

NoChanceToDance · #30 12-10-2007, 11:10 AM

How can they call a 12 furlong race a marathon??? That in itself is a joke.

There were reports in our racing press that the BC people were discussing the idea of a staying race and it was assumed it would be a 14 furlong race.

I do agree that they are making too much of it now. Field sizes will no doubt drop with these added races.

As someone said, it is becoming too much of a good thing.

Whats next, a race for greys only?

Sightseek · #31 12-10-2007, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Looks like they are headed towards doing this. I think a bunch of people are looking only at the short term here and thinking about how ugly this race will be and what it's going to be like for the first few years. It's going to be brutal, no doubt about it. I do think, however, that over the coming years, it's going to start getting better. I remember when the JCGC was a 12f race and I know it was a 16f race for a long time before that. I know that races like the Brooklyn and the Woodward used to be run at 12f also. I remember people complaining when the JCGC was reduced to 10f and when the Vosburgh was reduced to 6.5f then to 6f. I hear the uproar when people like myself suggest that the TC races be reduced in distance. People keep saying that we are giving in to the breeders and making the horses into an even less sturdy breed. I believe that is true. But I kind of feel like it's contradictory to complain about the "woosification" of the horses then complain again when someone is at least trying to turn it around. I also believe that the BC is doing a good thing here in trying to turn that around. The first move had to be made by someone. The breeders weren't going to do it. They didn't have any incentive at all to breed horses to run longer distances when there were no races to run them. Now, they will have some spots so now there will be at least a little incentive. I applaud the BC for making the first move here. They've created a market for breeders to fill. But it's going to take time. I don't think anyone that is into the game and knows what's really going on is going to mistake the horses that win this race as true champions. We know it's going to be won for a while by the plodders that have no speed and can't compete with others at normal distances. Horses like Jazil, for instance. For a person like me, one who's usually looking at the negative side of the sport and trying to look for ideas that could make it better, I think this is a step in the right direction. A baby step but a step nonetheless.

Don't you think it's hard enough to get quality mile and a quarter races with Million dollar purses?

NoChanceToDance · #32 12-10-2007, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

Looks like they are headed towards doing this. I think a bunch of people are looking only at the short term here and thinking about how ugly this race will be and what it's going to be like for the first few years. It's going to be brutal, no doubt about it. I do think, however, that over the coming years, it's going to start getting better. I remember when the JCGC was a 12f race and I know it was a 16f race for a long time before that. I know that races like the Brooklyn and the Woodward used to be run at 12f also. I remember people complaining when the JCGC was reduced to 10f and when the Vosburgh was reduced to 6.5f then to 6f. I hear the uproar when people like myself suggest that the TC races be reduced in distance. People keep saying that we are giving in to the breeders and making the horses into an even less sturdy breed. I believe that is true. But I kind of feel like it's contradictory to complain about the "woosification" of the horses then complain again when someone is at least trying to turn it around. I also believe that the BC is doing a good thing here in trying to turn that around. The first move had to be made by someone. The breeders weren't going to do it. They didn't have any incentive at all to breed horses to run longer distances when there were no races to run them. Now, they will have some spots so now there will be at least a little incentive. I applaud the BC for making the first move here. They've created a market for breeders to fill. But it's going to take time. I don't think anyone that is into the game and knows what's really going on is going to mistake the horses that win this race as true champions. We know it's going to be won for a while by the plodders that have no speed and can't compete with others at normal distances. Horses like Jazil, for instance. For a person like me, one who's usually looking at the negative side of the sport and trying to look for ideas that could make it better, I think this is a step in the right direction. A baby step but a step nonetheless.

I have to say that i agree with almost everything you say here. As you say, people are complaining when races are dropped in distance, which is most likely to do with the breeders and their wants/needs. Now people also complain with longer distance races.

However, i'm not sure this kind of race should be on the BC, when the schedule is being packed full so it seems.

More 12 furlong races by all means, but i'm not sure if the BC is the right place, not while they continue to add races like they are going out of fashion.

King Glorious · #33 12-10-2007, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Don't you think it's hard enough to get quality mile and a quarter races with Million dollar purses?

I do. And as I said, this new race is not going to be a quality race for at least a few years. The races they have during the year to support it will also suck. But I think they have to start somewhere. If you are a breeder, you had absolutely no incentive to even think about breeding horses that could run beyond 10f. Now, they do. It's going to take a while but I am confident that in a few years, maybe it takes five or more, this race won't be so bad. I try not to only focus on the short term when I think about racing.

#34 12-10-2007, 11:21 AM

So now the BC is going to save horse racing.

And people are buying it.

You can't make this stuff up.

blackthroatedwind · #35 12-10-2007, 11:21 AM

This new race will never have a quality field. Never.

brianwspencer · #36 12-10-2007, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sightseek

When Malibu Moonshine wins it?

Lest we forget that this also gives the owners extra incentive to keep Student Council in training next year.

It's like they wrote the race just for him.

#37 12-10-2007, 11:24 AM

The BC should take over concessions and serve paint chips. I think they'd go over big.

King Glorious · #38 12-10-2007, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Couple things. Do you really think this race was set up to try and "improve" the breed? I don't. And do you really think this is going to matter? This game has changed so much in the last 15-20 years and I am afraid it can never be changed back. There is too much money in breeding. Breeders and buyers want to see quick works and speed. Isn't this the complete opposite. I see your point, but don't think it is realistic.

It may turn out to not be realistic and the things I'm hoping for may never happen. I am just glad that there is now something to hope for. Without making this race and some others throughout the year for these types of horses to run in, there was never any hope that breeders would ever breed these kinds of horses anymore and I didn't even blame them.

To answer your question, no, I don't really think it was done to improve the breed. I know it was done with greed in mind. But if a side effect can end up helping the game out a little bit, I'm ok with that.

blackthroatedwind · #39 12-10-2007, 11:33 AM

How is does it " help the game " to attempt to create a division of slow horses?

Sightseek · #40 12-10-2007, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious

I do. And as I said, this new race is not going to be a quality race for at least a few years. The races they have during the year to support it will also suck. But I think they have to start somewhere. If you are a breeder, you had absolutely no incentive to even think about breeding horses that could run beyond 10f. Now, they do. It's going to take a while but I am confident that in a few years, maybe it takes five or more, this race won't be so bad. I try not to only focus on the short term when I think about racing.

I agree with what Hossy said above and because of this I think the Breeder's Cup Comittee would be better served focusing on the issues that are brought before them (not enough windows etc) than diluting the product and getting horses there that shouldn't be. Quality over quantity IMO.

If they really wanted to bring more Breeder's Cup to the second day, why not transfer the Steeplechase event to that day?