Racing is just so disorganized

To further expound upon and illustrate the sheer insanity of the lack of racing's premier tracks and circuits to stop killing each others strength of stakes races, as written about by our host Steve, I'd like to point to the sheer insanity this upcoming weekend of 3Yo grass races all being run at the same time.

Belmont- Jamiaca Handicap, graded race on turf for 3 year olds.
Hawthorne- Hawthorne Derby, graded stakes race on turf for 3 year olds
Santa Anita-Oak Tree Derby, graded stakes race on turf for three year olds.


This is just ridiculous. Instead of one good field gathering together at one locale for a great race, we will have three watered down versions.
You'd think at least one of these venues would look at the other venues schedules upon release and call an audible and move the dates around a little so they didn't all conflict. This is quite stupid.

[Linny]

You left out the Calder Derby!

Originally Posted by Linny

You left out the Calder Derby for 3yo grass horses on Oct 17.

LOL!!! Thats pretty funny, make sure you run all four graded stakes for three year old grass horses in a short time frame.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by oracle80

To further expound upon and illustrate the sheer insanity of the lack of racing's premier tracks and circuits to stop killing each others strength of stakes races, as written about by our host Steve, I'd like to point to the sheer insanity this upcoming weekend of 3Yo grass races all being run at the same time.

Belmont- Jamiaca Handicap, graded race on turf for 3 year olds.
Hawthorne- Hawthorne Derby, graded stakes race on turf for 3 year olds
Santa Anita-Oak Tree Derby, graded stakes race on turf for three year olds.


This is just ridiculous. Instead of one good field gathering together at one locale for a great race, we will have three watered down versions.
You'd think at least one of these venues would look at the other venues schedules upon release and call an audible and move the dates around a little so they didn't all conflict. This is quite stupid.

Yeah, it blows my mind how you can have so many races for the same conditions on the same weekend. So stupid.

[disrespectnfool]

this has always been a major contention w/me.
if only states,people, commissions, could put aside their egos and create a true racing league!!
think of how many more people would be drawn to an organized sport?!
a place where the average oracle, errr i mean joe, could follow the sport with actual standings that were relative, possible creating more rooting interest for some, and forcing more head to head match ups from the big boys, rather than them dodging each other except for BC day.
so frustrating!!!

Devils Advocate reply


It would only result in maybe one or two extra horses in a field. The number of races a horse runs in would go down drastically.

Originally Posted by Pillow Pants

Devils Advocate reply


It would only result in maybe one or two extra horses in a field. The number of races a horse runs in would go down drastically.

Pillow I can tell you right now it would result in more starters if those races were run staggered.
Guys have 4 options right now with grass horses. They are gonna shop accordingly. It would result in bigger more competitive fields.

Oracle Those three races have been run for over thirty years, your suggestion that they be staggered is absurd. What would you like one 24 horse field, once a month?

Originally Posted by bellsbendboy

Oracle Those three races have been run for over thirty years, your suggestion that they be staggered is absurd. What would you like one 24 horse field, once a month?

Exactly ... run one race per month and build up rivalries between horses who face each other frequently ... over different tracks and under different conditions ...

I don't know how old you are ... but back in the 1950's, 1960's & 1970's ... that's exactly what happened. Horses in the same divisionm would face each other 5, 6, 7 times per year ... and guess what? ...

... the game was much, much more interesting then.

Oracle knows of which he speaks ... pay attention.

Originally Posted by bellsbendboy

Oracle Those three races have been run for over thirty years, your suggestion that they be staggered is absurd. What would you like one 24 horse field, once a month?

No, but two of em on two weekends a month apart might boost the feild of all four.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by bellsbendboy

Oracle Those three races have been run for over thirty years, your suggestion that they be staggered is absurd. What would you like one 24 horse field, once a month?

How about the best horses in the three face off in a 10-12 horse field and the rest go back to the allowance ranks where they belong.

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

How about the best horses in the three face off in a 10-12 horse field and the rest go back to the allowance ranks where they belong.

LOL!!! Thats what happens when you can run a horse eligible for a non 1 other than in a 250 and have a good shot at 3rd money.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by oracle80

LOL!!! Thats what happens when you can run a horse eligible for a non 1 other than in a 250 and have a good shot at 3rd money.

...and the reason you see about as many white thoroughbreds as you do NW3X allowances. Any horse that has won 2 allowances is more than ready to take down these sort of stakes.

[sumitas]

Originally Posted by disrespectnfool

this has always been a major contention w/me.
if only states,people, commissions, could put aside their egos and create a true racing league!!
think of how many more people would be drawn to an organized sport?!
a place where the average oracle, errr i mean joe, could follow the sport with actual standings that were relative, possible creating more rooting interest for some, and forcing more head to head match ups from the big boys, rather than them dodging each other except for BC day.
so frustrating!!!

At the least you would think there would be a computerized poll that ranks the horses according to their group. Like that NT Times BCS college football poll that ranks the college teams even though they don't play each other. Maybe a computerized poll with rankings could liven up the sport in North America.

Steve, you can have a DERBY TRAIL COMPUTERIZED POLL of the different divisions throughtout the season in 2007...start with North America...this is my project for you...maybe even a DerbyTrail/Thoro-graph Ranking of top 10 division leaders in North America for the 2007 season.

[avance2000]

Originally Posted by oracle80

To further expound upon and illustrate the sheer insanity of the lack of racing's premier tracks and circuits to stop killing each others strength of stakes races, as written about by our host Steve, I'd like to point to the sheer insanity this upcoming weekend of 3Yo grass races all being run at the same time.

Belmont- Jamiaca Handicap, graded race on turf for 3 year olds.
Hawthorne- Hawthorne Derby, graded stakes race on turf for 3 year olds
Santa Anita-Oak Tree Derby, graded stakes race on turf for three year olds.


This is just ridiculous. Instead of one good field gathering together at one locale for a great race, we will have three watered down versions.
You'd think at least one of these venues would look at the other venues schedules upon release and call an audible and move the dates around a little so they didn't all conflict. This is quite stupid.

good points....but i guess my question is.....is there anything that the NTRA or anyone else can realistically do to correct this problem?

[avance2000]

Originally Posted by bellsbendboy

Oracle Those three races have been run for over thirty years, your suggestion that they be staggered is absurd. What would you like one 24 horse field, once a month?

just because they have been run at a certain time for years doesn't mean they shouldn't be changed. will moving the hawthorne derby to a different time really break anyone's heart? it isn't like we are talking about moving the kentucky derby to the third tuesday in january.

Originally Posted by avance2000

good points....but i guess my question is.....is there anything that the NTRA or anyone else can realistically do to correct this problem?

Look this drives the racing secretarys nuts. They all wanna put on the best show they can. You don't need an organization to do it. Just a little common sense.

And another thing ...

... and this particularly applies to the NYRA ...

... whenever a graded stakes races is run at ... say ... 9f around two turns on dirt ... why is it that none ... zero ... of the other nine races on the same card are run at that distance? Are the tracks oblivious to the fact that having some sort of yardstick for gauging the relative speed of stakes performances is very important?

It just buzzes me to see a 9f dirt stakes ... along with four turf races and five 6f sprints. How the heck can we get reliable speed ratings from cards like that?

Happens all the time in New York.

[Pointg5]

Originally Posted by Bold Brooklynite

And another thing ...

... and this particularly applies to the NYRA ...

... whenever a graded stakes races is run at ... say ... 9f around two turns on dirt ... why is it that none ... zero ... of the other nine races on the same card are run at that distance? Are the tracks oblivious to the fact that having some sort of yardstick for gauging the relative speed of stakes performances is very important?

It just buzzes me to see a 9f dirt stakes ... along with four turf races and five 6f sprints. How the heck can we get reliable speed ratings from cards like that?

Happens all the time in New York.

Also happens on Ky Derby Day...

[disrespectnfool]

Originally Posted by avance2000

good points....but i guess my question is.....is there anything that the NTRA or anyone else can realistically do to correct this problem?

it's not a question of wether this can change, it has to.