Vale Dori

[Indian Charlie]

Someday she'll be as good as plum pretty.

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie

Someday she'll be as good as plum pretty.

Plum Pretty was a multiple G1 winner. I know its fun to pile on me, but she was a good horse.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

When she is no better then 5th on Friday all this madness can stop.

missed this....good call

[RHT2004]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

missed this....good call

Seriously bro? She was odds on and lost. You can make a living tossing horses over bet like her in exchange wagering. I gave her respect post race, while realizing she set a slow pace and still couldn't win. She's good, that's it. Nothing wrong w/ being good.

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

Seriously bro? She was odds on and lost. You can make a living tossing horses over bet like her in exchange wagering. I gave her respect post race, while realizing she set a slow pace and still couldn't win. She's good, that's it. Nothing wrong w/ being good.

Lost ? What race were you watching ?see avatar

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by RHT2004

Seriously bro? She was odds on and lost. You can make a living tossing horses over bet like her in exchange wagering. I gave her respect post race, while realizing she set a slow pace and still couldn't win. She's good, that's it. Nothing wrong w/ being good.

The fact you believe your opinion validated by a horse losing a head bob, to Beholder no less, is no shock to anyone.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up

The fact you believe your opinion validated by a horse losing a head bob, to Beholder no less, is no shock to anyone.

Look Stellar Wind didnt fire had trouble or whatever and Songbird is suppose to draw off given the pace she didnt. Beholder ran a much better race not sure how many additional feet Beholder ran but it was at least 3 lengths. Songbird ran well but given the race dynamics I dont believe she ran to her rep

[taxicab]

She's looking like a major player now.
The Grade 1 Santa Margarita in March @ Santa Anita is probably on her agenda.
I wonder when she meets up with Songbird......
Apple Blossom perhaps ?

https://youtu.be/PNGh2kBN5wo

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Look Stellar Wind didnt fire had trouble or whatever and Songbird is suppose to draw off given the pace she didnt. Beholder ran a much better race not sure how many additional feet Beholder ran but it was at least 3 lengths. Songbird ran well but given the race dynamics I dont believe she ran to her rep

What REP?

Almost all the twitter head racing people where saying she was way to slow to compete in that race.

[10 pnt move up]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Look Stellar Wind didnt fire had trouble or whatever and Songbird is suppose to draw off given the pace she didnt. Beholder ran a much better race not sure how many additional feet Beholder ran but it was at least 3 lengths. Songbird ran well but given the race dynamics I dont believe she ran to her rep

and this 3 length bull...same trip that Arrogate had against Chrome. That first turn cost her nothing.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

Look Stellar Wind didnt fire had trouble or whatever and Songbird is suppose to draw off given the pace she didnt. Beholder ran a much better race not sure how many additional feet Beholder ran but it was at least 3 lengths. Songbird ran well but given the race dynamics I dont believe she ran to her rep

Yep, responding to the mid-stretch challenge of a 3-time BC-winning, 3-time Eclipse winning, 18 for 26 overall, 14 for 16 on the Santa Anita main track older horse and fighting tooth-and-nail to the wire only to lose on a head bob was one of the all-time great exposures of an over-hyped, purported champion.

Reminded me of when that phony Spectacular Bid lost the Jockey Club Gold Cup to Affirmed. What a joke that horse was.

But I understand where you coming from, all this talk of "greatest Distaff of all time" takes away from Personal Ensign's grinding win over 3yo Derby winner Winning Colors in 1988.

[freddymo]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Yep, responding to the mid-stretch challenge of a 3-time BC-winning, 3-time Eclipse winning, 18 for 26 overall, 14 for 16 on the Santa Anita main track older horse and fighting tooth-and-nail to the wire only to lose on a head bob was one of the all-time great exposures of an over-hyped, purported champion.

Reminded me of when that phony Spectacular Bid lost the Jockey Club Gold Cup to Affirmed. What a joke that horse was.

But I understand where you coming from, all this talk of "greatest Distaff of all time" takes away from Personal Ensign's grinding win over 3yo Derby winner Winning Colors in 1988.

She ran well, her fig was about what the other G1's fillies and mares had been running. My point is given dynamics she is suppose to win that race comfortably. Beholder ran a much better race and while Beholder is lauded as one of the greatest EVAH I don't hold her in that regard a worthy Champion of course but she isnt on my Mt Rushmore. Songbird got as soft a set up as anyone could have foreseen and Stellar Wind laying an egg changed the whole race. She is really good but in my mind her not drawing off and winning that race by 1/2 to length pretty much proved she was exactly what I thought she was. Mind you if Stellar wind had run her nice seriously doubt Songbird would have been better then 3rd

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by freddymo

She ran well, her fig was about what the other G1's fillies and mares had been running. My point is given dynamics she is suppose to win that race comfortably. Beholder ran a much better race and while Beholder is lauded as one of the greatest EVAH I don't hold her in that regard a worthy Champion of course but she isnt on my Mt Rushmore. Songbird got as soft a set up as anyone could have foreseen and Stellar Wind laying an egg changed the whole race. She is really good but in my mind her not drawing off and winning that race by 1/2 to length pretty much proved she was exactly what I thought she was. Mind you if Stellar wind had run her nice seriously doubt Songbird would have been better then 3rd

Well, that was clearly the toughest field Songbird had ever faced and had she wilted down the stretch after the comfortable pace setup, sure you could say she was exposed. But visually, she clearly responded when challenged by a much more experienced and battle-tested mare in Beholder. I think she validated the "hype" and it will be interesting to see what she does at 4. As you know, many a top class 3yo filly have faltered the next year (My Flag, Silverbulletday, Winning Colors, etc.) but hopefully we see her progress.

As for Stellar Wind, I'm surprised that she gets a pass and avoids the "overhyped" branding. She has never delivered when it counted most.

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Well, that was clearly the toughest field Songbird had ever faced and had she wilted down the stretch after the comfortable pace setup, sure you could say she was exposed. But visually, she clearly responded when challenged by a much more experienced and battle-tested mare in Beholder. I think she validated the "hype" and it will be interesting to see what she does at 4. As you know, many a top class 3yo filly have faltered the next year (My Flag, Silverbulletday, Winning Colors, etc.) but hopefully we see her progress.

As for Stellar Wind, I'm surprised that she gets a pass and avoids the "overhyped" branding. She has never delivered when it counted most.

While she did not have the talent that Songbird does, Blind Luck did not go on the same way as a 4YO for the same trainer. Should be interesting to see.

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

While she did not have the talent that Songbird does, Blind Luck did not go on the same way as a 4YO for the same trainer. Should be interesting to see.

Blind Luck was a bit of an inbetweener, in the sense she had several high profile losses, yet still won some important races (Vanity, La Troienne, Delaware 'Cap). Kind of like Real Quiet or dare I say Affirmed (he lost several races at Santa Anita, too, early in his 4yo year).

Of course, her last race was a complete disaster.

Songbird did not make hard work of it this year aside from the Distaff, while Blind Luck got into some tough spots, particularly with Harve de Grace, as a 3yo. Nevertheless, I have the same reservation as you. Hopefully she shows up because the trainer is very sporting (i.e., he ships around) when he has a horse on fire.

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by NTamm1215

While she did not have the talent that Songbird does, Blind Luck did not go on the same way as a 4YO for the same trainer. Should be interesting to see.

Blind Luck did not drub anything in her way all year, including the Alabama. What a terrible analogy. Certainly never faced a field even close to the Distaff either

[RolloTomasi]

Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes

Blind Luck did not drub anything in her way all year, including the Alabama. What a terrible analogy. Certainly never faced a field even close to the Distaff either

Kinda tough to drub a horse of Havre de Grace's caliber. The best 3yos Songbird faced were distance challenged sorts (Carina Mia, Cathryn Sophia). The main point was that a lot of top 3yo fillies over the years have bottomed out as 4yos and the trainer of Songbird is fairly aggressive with his stock, which is not conducive to longevity in general.

[Alabama Stakes]

Originally Posted by RolloTomasi

Kinda tough to drub a horse of Havre de Grace's caliber. The best 3yos Songbird faced were distance challenged sorts (Carina Mia, Cathryn Sophia). The main point was that a lot of top 3yo fillies over the years have bottomed out as 4yos and the trainer of Songbird is fairly aggressive with his stock, which is not conducive to longevity in general.

She broke their spirit much like A 19 for 20 mare did to her competition. She looks the part and runs to her looks

[taxicab]

Originally Posted by freddymo

She ran well, her fig was about what the other G1's fillies and mares had been running. My point is given dynamics she is suppose to win that race comfortably. Beholder ran a much better race and while Beholder is lauded as one of the greatest EVAH I don't hold her in that regard a worthy Champion of course but she isnt on my Mt Rushmore. Songbird got as soft a set up as anyone could have foreseen and Stellar Wind laying an egg changed the whole race. She is really good but in my mind her not drawing off and winning that race by 1/2 to length pretty much proved she was exactly what I thought she was. Mind you if Stellar wind had run her nice seriously doubt Songbird would have been better then 3rd

Beholder ran a much better race ?
Beholder was a whisker better then Songbird.......that's it.
You're also assuming Stellar Wind was going to run a giant race.
If she breaks slow for a barn that is winless (with a large sample) in BC races that's her mistake.
Songbird doesn't make mistakes.
Songbird is a seven time Grade 1 winner @ distances ranging from 7 to 10 furlongs at DMR/KEEN/SA/SAR(twice)/PARX,she's also a soon to be two time Eclipse award winner.
When a horse puts up that kind of resume and drops a photo by a hair to a first ballot HOF mare,it solidifies her reputation as a freak.
BTW.....
Here's the splits from the Distaff & Classic......
The Songbird fractions seem to be in the same neighborhood as Chrome.
And Chrome wasn't hooked the entire stretch.
Distaff: 23.32/47.16/111.14/136.15/149.20
Classic: 23.28/47.15/110.96/135.72/200.11

[Alabama Stakes]

Lol soft setup in 23-47-1:11

Isn't a soft setup more like 24-49-1:13.... something like that ?