How Many Points

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

I honestly don't think you've ever watched the guy play outside of the NBA finals last year.

Nahhh.
Cleveland is never on National TV.
Lebron just aint a draw...

Lebron's offensive game is built soley
on his athleticism. I have never seen
as good an athlete in BBall as Lebron.

[horseofcourse]

Career 3 point percentages...Kobe 33.8, LeBron 32.2 (yeah real laugher there.)

Career field goal...Kobe 45.4 LeBron 46.6

The only singular thing Kobe does significantly better than LeBron is shoot free throws. And his mid range jumper is better at this point.

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Career 3 point percentages...Kobe 33.8, LeBron 32.2 (yeah real laugher there.)

Career field goal...Kobe 45.4 LeBron 46.6

The only singular thing Kobe does significantly better than LeBron is shoot free throws. And his mid range jumper is better at this point.

We are talking about this year Horse.
Way to go Career to make it fit.


And the only reason Lebrons FG % is below 50% (which it should not be),
is because he shoots jump shots and tries 3's.

Do you honestly think Lebron is as good a jump shooter
or 3 point shooter THIS YEAR as Kobe? I know you dont.
And if you do, you only watch Cleveland.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Nahhh.
Cleveland is never on National TV.
Lebron just aint a draw...

Lebron's offensive game is built soley
on his athleticism. I have never seen
as good an athlete in BBall as Lebron.

Again, the bolded part makes me seriously question if you've ever actually seen him play. OF course, his athleticism certainly doesn't hurt his game. He's a very smart player however who in all honesty works to get better and has every year. He has been ludicrously consistent this year night in and night out. Every player in the game bricks it now and then as does he...but this guy...very rarely.

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

Again, the bolded part makes me seriously question if you've ever actually seen him play. OF course, his athleticism certainly doesn't hurt his game. He's a very smart player however who in all honesty works to get better and has every year. He has been ludicrously consistent this year night in and night out. Every player in the game bricks it now and then as does he...but this guy...very rarely.

My friend.
Lebron is a decent shooter at this point in his
career and thats the truth.

His work near the basket, especially when going to the
basket, is nothing short of amazing and that suckers
many fans, even Cleveland fans.

He has a lot more work to do on shooting to get close
to Kobe.

I really like Lebron as a player, and the little I know
about him as a person. The NBA is very lucky to have him.
He clearly wants to get better and he will. For a guy as
young as he is, his basketball IQ is advanced imo.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by pgardn

We are talking about this year Horse.
Way to go Career to make it fit.


And the only reason Lebrons FG % is below 50% (which it should not be),
is because he shoots jump shots and tries 3's.

Do you honestly think Lebron is as good a jump shooter
or 3 point shooter THIS YEAR as Kobe? I know you dont.
And if you do, you only watch Cleveland.

No he isn't as good a jump shooter as Kobe...nor is he as good a 3 pot shooter as Kapono...I take LeBron over Kapono however. He isn't as good a shot blocker as Mutombo, but I'd still take him over Mutombo as MVP, just as I'd take him over Kobe as MVP. I don't think his 31 percent is actually a horrible 3 pt percentage for LeBron in the grand scheme of things. And I would venture to also say in the 4th quarter, LeBron is just as good a shooter as Kobe. Look at their 4th quarter numbers as a team...look at his individually...look at the fact the Cavs are actually getting outscored as a team this year and then look at their record...look at their record with LeBron on the floor. It's all right there. 82 for 263 for LeBron///102 for 295 for Kobe..yeah Kobe is a better 3 point shooter this year...35 to 31 percent. I guess that's significant?? I am of the opinion that LeBron is a pretty good defensive player as well.

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

No he isn't as good a jump shooter as Kobe...nor is he as good a 3 pot shooter as Kapono...I take LeBron over Kapono however. He isn't as good a shot blocker as Mutombo, but I'd still take him over Mutombo as MVP, just as I'd take him over Kobe as MVP. I don't think his 31 percent is actually a horrible 3 pt percentage for LeBron in the grand scheme of things. And I would venture to also say in the 4th quarter, LeBron is just as good a shooter as Kobe. Look at their 4th quarter numbers as a team...look at his individually...look at the fact the Cavs are actually getting outscored as a team this year and then look at their record...look at their record with LeBron on the floor. It's all right there. 82 for 263 for LeBron///102 for 295 for Kobe..yeah Kobe is a better 3 point shooter this year...35 to 31 percent. I guess that's significant?? I am of the opinion that LeBron is a pretty good defensive player as well.

Actually making 20 more 3 pointers is significant.

Kapono? I will throw in 4 more off of one team.
Ginobili, Bowen, Barry, Finely... and I have not looked
up any of their stats from three.

Lebron is a pretty good defensive player.
But he saves the hard work for offense.
Which is understandable.

[horseofcourse]

Originally Posted by pgardn

My friend.
Lebron is a decent shooter at this point in his
career and thats the truth.

His work near the basket, especially when going to the
basket, is nothing short of amazing and that suckers
many fans, even Cleveland fans.

He has a lot more work to do on shooting to get close
to Kobe.

I really like Lebron as a player, and the little I know
about him as a person. The NBA is very lucky to have him.
He clearly wants to get better and he will. For a guy as
young as he is, his basketball IQ is advanced imo.

He always works on his shooting. My guess is he will never in his entire career be as good a pure shooter as Kobe...but he is not as far as people think...(nor is he nearly as bad a shooter as some think.) I'm not sure what his issues are shooting free throws either...he's not a disgrace doing it, but nowhere near where a premiere player should be. I'm obviously biased, but I think his overall court presence is better than Kobe and his passing is better than Kobe. Kobe is a good passer, but not as good as LeBron.

I'm fine with Kobe winning MVP. He is certainly not undeserving in any way. He plays a rougher schedule than LeBron which has to be factored into the equation as well. That being said however, the Cavs do have road wins in San Antonio, Dallas and LA this year.

Originally Posted by horseofcourse

He always works on his shooting. My guess is he will never in his entire career be as good a pure shooter as Kobe...but he is not as far as people think...(nor is he nearly as bad a shooter as some think.) I'm not sure what his issues are shooting free throws either...he's not a disgrace doing it, but nowhere near where a premiere player should be. I'm obviously biased, but I think his overall court presence is better than Kobe and his passing is better than Kobe. Kobe is a good passer, but not as good as LeBron.

I'm fine with Kobe winning MVP. He is certainly not undeserving in any way. He plays a rougher schedule than LeBron which has to be factored into the equation as well. That being said however, the Cavs do have road wins in San Antonio, Dallas and LA this year.

They beat SA both regular season games
last year. I like the Cavs. I like Lebron.
I have to with all the San Antonio connections
on the coaching staff. Those are very decent fellows.
I really wish the Spurs had the curly head man for defense
and energy.

Kobe is the MVP though.
I just dont see how it cant be.
I will even wager Mr. Cannon.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Kobe is the MVP right now.
Hands down.

And King your are going stats on us
again. Kobe hits the jumper. Again
and again and again. Lebron?

Lebron is horribly inconsistent.
Lebron's game is bull to the basket
and dish or dunk. His mid-range game
is not even close to Kobe's.
His 3 game is a laugher. Kobe has no
weakness offensively (dribbles a little much
but they dont have a legit PG like other good teams
in the West)

And Kobe is a much better defender.

Its Kobe and it aint close.

As i have asked you before...Do you ever actually watch the games?

Lebron is horribly inconsistent?
Probably the most consistent player in the game.

His offensive game is bull to the basket and dish or dunk?
Durant is NOT a good player supposedly because he doesn't do this but Lebron is not as good as Kobe because he does?

Kobe is a better shooter than LeBron yet his field goal percentage is lesser.
His superior 3 point shooting in 3 % point better than LeBrons.

Kobe doesnt have a legit point guard? Fischer and Farmer are like Bob Cousy and Walt Frazier compared to LeBrons alternatives.

Kobe is a much better defender though LeBron was ranked third in defensive win shares last year behind only Tim Duncan and Ben Wallace. Kobe has 119 steals compared to Le Brons 106 yet Le Bron has 54 blocks compared to kobe's 34.

Of course the fact that Lebron has 50 more rebounds and 80 more assists and is a far better rebounder on both ends and a much better passer doesnt count I suppose.

Lebron is not only the best player in the league already but he is getting better.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Lebron's offensive game is built soley
on his athleticism. I have never seen
as good an athlete in BBall as Lebron.

And Kobe is just smart? Not an athlete? That Jordan guy was a pretty good athlete by the way. Not a very good baseball player but pretty athletic.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

My friend.
Lebron is a decent shooter at this point in his
career and thats the truth.

His work near the basket, especially when going to the
basket, is nothing short of amazing and that suckers
many fans, even Cleveland fans.

He has a lot more work to do on shooting to get close
to Kobe.

I really like Lebron as a player, and the little I know
about him as a person. The NBA is very lucky to have him.
He clearly wants to get better and he will. For a guy as
young as he is, his basketball IQ is advanced imo.

Well when you just see highlights on ESPN that is all they show. For a guy that occasionally forces his jumper and at times has been the only viable offensive option on the court almost shooting 49% is pretty good.

Kobe is a streak shooter, always has been, always will be. When he is hot he can be unstoppable from just about anywhere. But he will throw a 10 for 28 at you, hence the 45% from the field. He is also not a great 3 point shooter. He is as was pointed out excellent from the line.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

They beat SA both regular season games
last year. I like the Cavs. I like Lebron.
I have to with all the San Antonio connections
on the coaching staff. Those are very decent fellows.
I really wish the Spurs had the curly head man for defense
and energy.

Kobe is the MVP though.
I just dont see how it cant be.
I will even wager Mr. Cannon.

Without the Gasol trade, Kobe is not even in the top 5. That is why awards voted on by writers are a joke. Kobe had a better year last year yet all of a sudden he is the MVP? He is not even the MVP of the West. That would be Chris Paul.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

As i have asked you before...Do you ever actually watch the games?

1.Lebron is horribly inconsistent?
Probably the most consistent player in the game.

2.His offensive game is bull to the basket and dish or dunk?
Durant is NOT a good player supposedly because he doesn't do this but Lebron is not as good as Kobe because he does?

3.Kobe is a better shooter than LeBron yet his field goal percentage is lesser.
His superior 3 point shooting in 3 % point better than LeBrons.

4.Kobe doesnt have a legit point guard? Fischer and Farmer are like Bob Cousy and Walt Frazier compared to LeBrons alternatives.

5.Kobe is a much better defender though LeBron was ranked third in defensive win shares last year behind only Tim Duncan and Ben Wallace. Kobe has 119 steals compared to Le Brons 106 yet Le Bron has 54 blocks compared to kobe's 34.

6.Of course the fact that Lebron has 50 more rebounds and 80 more assists and is a far better rebounder on both ends and a much better passer doesnt count I suppose.

7.Lebron is not only the best player in the league already but he is getting better.

Let me elaborate.
1.Lebron is a VERY inconsistent outside shooter.
2.Yes Lebron's best game by far is close to the basket.
Durant... whaaaa? Were did I say he was not good. I said he IS 1-
Dimensional
Lebron Best on the drive with a full head of steam. Dish or bull to the rim.
3. Lebron's FG % would be over 50% if he stopped shooting so many outside shots. His FG% should be much better than Kobe's THIS YEAR.
4. This is a joke obviously. Just a few names D. Williams, C. Paul, T. Parker, B. Roy, S. Nash, J. Kidd ... LA would take any one of these guards over BOTH you mentioned. And this is just the West. Am I really falling for a joke here?
5. Allen Iverson and Mutombo are great defenders because they make a bunch of (respectively) steals, blocked shots. What about just pestering your man and helping off the ball when needed. Why is it that everyone looks at steals and blocked shots. SA intervention: Bruce Bowen gets few of either... he pesters and helps.
6. He plays a forward, he is called a guard. He should get more rebounds. Kobe is getting many more assists now that he has Gasol. But I will give a slight edge to Lebron passing.

7. Lebron is the best athlete in the league and the 2nd best player.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

And Kobe is just smart? Not an athlete? That Jordan guy was a pretty good athlete by the way. Not a very good baseball player but pretty athletic.

Kobe is the 2nd best athlete in the league.
And Kobe is smarter than Lebron for one reason.
He has played longer. Thats it.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Well when you just see highlights on ESPN that is all they show. For a guy that occasionally forces his jumper and at times has been the only viable offensive option on the court almost shooting 49% is pretty good.

Kobe is a streak shooter, always has been, always will be. When he is hot he can be unstoppable from just about anywhere. But he will throw a 10 for 28 at you, hence the 45% from the field. He is also not a great 3 point shooter. He is as was pointed out excellent from the line.

Lebron should be shooting over 50%. If he did not force his
jumper and then just flat out miss his jumper, He would be shooting
over 50%. If Lebron shot as many outside shots as Kobe he would
be shooting under 40%.
YOu are telling me Lebron is a better outside shooter
than Kobe? No way, no how.

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Without the Gasol trade, Kobe is not even in the top 5. That is why awards voted on by writers are a joke. Kobe had a better year last year yet all of a sudden he is the MVP? He is not even the MVP of the West. That would be Chris Paul.

The Lakers had a better record than Cleveland without Gasol playing in the WEST. You cant be serious.
Who is watching too much ESPN...?

Chris Paul.

I actually could go with that.
But in the playoffs he finds a diff. world
which is why the Hornets go down 2nd round.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Let me elaborate.
1.Lebron is a VERY inconsistent outside shooter.
2.Yes Lebron's best game by far is close to the basket.
Durant... whaaaa? Were did I say he was not good. I said he IS 1-
Dimensional
Lebron Best on the drive with a full head of steam. Dish or bull to the rim.
3. Lebron's FG % would be over 50% if he stopped shooting so many outside shots. His FG% should be much better than Kobe's THIS YEAR.
4. This is a joke obviously. Just a few names D. Williams, C. Paul, T. Parker, B. Roy, S. Nash, J. Kidd ... LA would take any one of these guards over BOTH you mentioned. And this is just the West. Am I really falling for a joke here?
5. Allen Iverson and Mutombo are great defenders because they make a bunch of (respectively) steals, blocked shots. What about just pestering your man and helping off the ball when needed. Why is it that everyone looks at steals and blocked shots. SA intervention: Bruce Bowen gets few of either... he pesters and helps.
6. He plays a forward, he is called a guard. He should get more rebounds. Kobe is getting many more assists now that he has Gasol. But I will give a slight edge to Lebron passing.

7. Lebron is the best athlete in the league and the 2nd best player.

If you actually watched the games you would see that LeBrons shooting has been very consistent. You act as though he gets 80% of his points on layups.

Why should Lebrons FG% be better than Kobes (of course it is) if Kobe is such a superior shooter?

Naming all-star point guards is nice but if Kobe suffers with Fischer who has a few rings as a point guard by the way and Farmar who has improved greatly, would not LeBron get more credit for having ......Eric Snow?

Do you actually watch the games? Kobe always goes for the steal and doesnt even make an effort when he is shooting well. If he put the effort in all the time, he could be the best defensive guard in the league, hands down but he doesnt bother and frequently mails it in when he is in a funk.

Lebron has a slight edge as a passer? Kobe only recently started to pass to the post (when they got an allstar player) and usually only passes when he cant get a shot off. Lebron has tremendous passing skills, may be the best part of his game. He has almost 30 fewer turnovers than Kobe which is a signifigant number consdering he has a lot more assists.

LeBron is a better player than Kobe. He plays harder, makes players around him better and has a greater variety of allstar caliber skills than anyone in the game. He still tries to do too much and forces the issue a bit but has improved in that regard. He rarely shoots during the 1st part of the game, prefering to get the other players involved. He is the best passing big man in the league, is the best player in the open court, leads the league in scoring, the best at going to the basket, improving at the defensive end to an elite level, improving his rebounding, improving his post up game and doing all this despite being almost the entire focus of his team on offense. Kobe is a great scorer, great defensive player and pretty much thats it. He doesnt play hard all the time, doesnt help the other players as much as he should considering the doubles he often shoots right over (as opposed to passing ) He is an average passer and a pretty good defensive rebounder for a guard. He also forces too many bad shots and plays in funks. The addition of Gasol has seemingly helped and playing with a broken pinkie is nice but that should not be why someone is the MVP. If you put Kobe on the Cavs they are floundering. If you put Lebron on the Lakers, they are big favs to win it all. Kobe is an alltime great, probably a top 15 player, but Lebron James is a better basketball player right now.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Kobe is the 2nd best athlete in the league.
And Kobe is smarter than Lebron for one reason.
He has played longer. Thats it.

LeBron James is a much smarter player than Kobe Bryant. Regardless of experience. Ricky Davis has played longer too...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by pgardn

Lebron should be shooting over 50%. If he did not force his
jumper and then just flat out miss his jumper, He would be shooting
over 50%. If Lebron shot as many outside shots as Kobe he would
be shooting under 40%.
YOu are telling me Lebron is a better outside shooter
than Kobe? No way, no how.

No one said that he was a better outside shooter than Kobe but the difference is not that great and is shrinking. his shot selection is better than Kobe's (not that that is saying much). Lebron does take a lot of outside shots, of course if you watched the games you would know this.