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  #21  
Old 11-15-2021, 09:07 AM
blackthroatedwind blackthroatedwind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept View Post
Not redboarding anything. Just trying to provide what felt like interesting context to elements of a surprising winner. Like you explaining the soft-ish turf being a logical factor.
Is there an English translation?

Freddy, can you help here?
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  #22  
Old 11-15-2021, 10:27 AM
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King Glorious King Glorious is offline
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Interesting conversation. I don't know anything about the race or the trainer and everything I've learned has come from this thread. I think good arguments have been made on both sides. The result was completely unforseeable. That winner may not have been my selection to win even if no other horse was entered. There was absolutely nothing to indicate a performance like that was even possible. When you start looking for reasons why it happened, the soft turf seems like a good one. Something nefarious seems no less like a good reason. Without knowing anything about the individuals involved, I wouldn't make the claim or insinuation that something was done that wasn't on the up and up. I do, however, see how anyone could come to that conclusion and I definitely wouldn't argue with them and tell them they are wrong.

In the end, isn't that the bigger issue? As is the case with so many things, perception often becomes reality. Some people constantly bring up guys like Baffert and Cox and talk about how they cheat and ruin the sport. I counter that I have believed from the start and still do believe that cheating is a regular part of the game so when I get beat by something or someone that I feel like was unfair, I chalk it up to acceptable risk. The perception of the public when it comes to horse racing is that cheating is a regular part of the game. That's why I appreciate the Bob Baffert's of the world. At least they are more apparent with what they do. An old saying is that the enemy you know is better than the one you don't know.
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  #23  
Old 11-15-2021, 10:49 AM
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knickslions2 knickslions2 is offline
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Not sure why every time a unexpected result happens is always stated it’s because of cheating. This kind of result happens from time to time. That’s racing and impossible horses can win especially on turf. The horses last race was decent and there were no world beaters in the field. Whether soft turf, distance or something else who knows. Nothing on form shows anything but that’s not a first for that.
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  #24  
Old 11-15-2021, 11:22 AM
Dahoss Dahoss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knickslions2 View Post
Not sure why every time a unexpected result happens is always stated it’s because of cheating. This kind of result happens from time to time. That’s racing and impossible horses can win especially on turf. The horses last race was decent and there were no world beaters in the field. Whether soft turf, distance or something else who knows. Nothing on form shows anything but that’s not a first for that.
Well for starters...because a lot of cheating goes on. Look at the last few years alone. First we had Navarro and Servis. Then Baffert has a horse test pop in both the Kentucky Oaks and Derby in back to back years. A jockey got caught with a buzzer at Monmouth this summer. I could go on and on.

This was strange because it was a decent field and nothing the horse had ever done came close to this performance. I've been following and betting for 25 years and can't ever recall a horse run 10th in a 25k claimer in August and turn around and win a stake in November. If you follow the NYRA circuit you know Mandate. This was not the same Mandate we had seen for years. He really ran on Saturday and was much the best.

I think the course, which had taken a bunch of rain not long before is the reason. But I also can't fault anyone for thinking something nefarious is the explanation. The reality is the sport has a bad perception right now by those that follow it like we do and by those that don't. Some of it is undeserved...but then again, some of it is absolutely deserved. Maybe the sport as a whole should look inward and try and change that.
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  #25  
Old 11-15-2021, 11:32 AM
Dahoss Dahoss is offline
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It's also worth noting he really ran in the Laurel race. Lifetime best.

So obviously his trainer has figured out how to get the best out of him.
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  #26  
Old 11-15-2021, 11:56 AM
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Kasept Kasept is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss View Post
It's also worth noting he really ran in the Laurel race. Lifetime best.

So obviously his trainer has figured out how to get the best out of him.
You can listen to him discuss it on ATR. Gave a ton of credit to his assistant trainer. She also is his exercise rider.
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  #27  
Old 11-15-2021, 12:06 PM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept View Post
You can listen to him discuss it on ATR. Gave a ton of credit to his assistant trainer. She also is his exercise rider.
No mention of the vet? I am telling you it's time the veterinarian gets some of the accolades.
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  #28  
Old 11-15-2021, 12:10 PM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss View Post
It's also worth noting he really ran in the Laurel race. Lifetime best.

So obviously his trainer has figured out how to get the best out of him.
Ex Pletcher/Potts is a strong angle...
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  #29  
Old 11-15-2021, 12:41 PM
Dahoss Dahoss is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept View Post
You can listen to him discuss it on ATR. Gave a ton of credit to his assistant trainer. She also is his exercise rider.
Did he mention being mad at Freddy?
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  #30  
Old 11-15-2021, 12:47 PM
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Kasept Kasept is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss View Post
Did he mention being mad at Freddy?
First thing he brought up..
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