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  #41  
Old 06-23-2012, 01:46 PM
Alabama Stakes Alabama Stakes is offline
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Originally Posted by Coach Pants View Post
I agree. What's happened is TVG and the ginger clown they hired for the show jumped immediately on Nolan for the ride.

Pure emotional response and it's valid at the time but now it's time to reflect. She didn't look all there today and still won.


the track announcer said as much during the call of the race.. don't blame tvg for that one
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  #42  
Old 06-23-2012, 02:39 PM
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It was certainly not a good performance for Black Caviar relative to her reputation -- and though the rider misjudged the finish -- he never pulled her up and merely stopped riding for a split second. Might have cost her a half length absolute tops.

The final time for the race was 1:14.10 for six furlongs. You could have thrown a blanket over many of them at the finish.

In the very next race, a useful handicap horse named Dandy Boy won a 29 runner event clear by 1.25 lengths in 1:13.87

Perhaps Dandy Boy just loves sprinting at Ascot -- he's 2-for-2 and won a 29-runner event there in 2010. Dandy Boy has now beaten all 56 horses he's faced sprinting on that course and just posted a time faster than Group 1 sprinters on the same day, distance, and only 35 minutes apart time wise.

Black Caviar had to deal with some international travel and a whole new climate. She didn't get the best of rides and she's getting up in age. It was a great win for her resume but not a performance consistent with that of an elite turf sprinter.
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  #43  
Old 06-23-2012, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Calzone Lord View Post
It was certainly not a good performance for Black Caviar relative to her reputation -- and though the rider misjudged the finish -- he never pulled her up and merely stopped riding for a split second. Might have cost her a half length absolute tops.

The final time for the race was 1:14.10 for six furlongs. You could have thrown a blanket over many of them at the finish.

In the very next race, a useful handicap horse named Dandy Boy won a 29 runner event clear by 1.25 lengths in 1:13.87

Perhaps Dandy Boy just loves sprinting at Ascot -- he's 2-for-2 and won a 29-runner event there in 2010. Dandy Boy has now beaten all 56 horses he's faced sprinting on that course and just posted a time faster than Group 1 sprinters on the same day, distance, and only 35 minutes apart time wise.

Black Caviar had to deal with some international travel and a whole new climate. She didn't get the best of rides and she's getting up in age. It was a great win for her resume but not a performance consistent with that of an elite turf sprinter.

She ain't gonna know what hit her when Ben's Cat or Chamberlain Ridge goes Euro.
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  #44  
Old 06-23-2012, 04:01 PM
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She ain't gonna know what hit her when Ben's Cat or Chamberlain Ridge goes Euro.
Here is the history of the recent editions of the Diamond Jubilee.

2011: A pair of 25-to-1 shots finished 1st and 2nd.

2010: 50-to-1 shot 2nd.

2009: 20-to-1 winner, Cannonball 2nd for Wesley Ward, 33-to-1 third.

2008: 33-to-1 winner

2007: 9-to-1 winner

2006: 33-to-1 winner by a neck over 50-to-1 second place.

Euro turf horse are more and more superior to our turf horses as the further distances increase.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure their sprinters might be a little better than our turf sprinters ... but we have the fastest horses in the world and if all our good dirt sprinters and milers were tried on turf I think we'd probably have the worlds top turf sprinter on most years.

We have the fast horses here and we have the dirt horses here. When you start talking about turf racing distances of 12 furlongs, 14 furlongs, 16 furlongs... they completely own us. Even at a mile and 10 furlongs they have us.
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  #45  
Old 06-23-2012, 04:14 PM
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Did anyone notice on the coverage when Black Caviar came back to her handlers. Trainer Moody was conversing with the jock then the jock took Black Caviar off for a little jog, turned around and jogged back to the trainer. He could have been parading her in front of the crowd, don't know for sure. But she wasn't jogging so smooth..Hope she's ok...
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  #46  
Old 06-23-2012, 04:23 PM
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http://youtu.be/cVn9Ss0x0vU
Comments from Moody and Nolen.

Moody says she'll be prepared for the spring racing carnival in Melbourne. November is enough months away for Moody to consider a detour if the $$$$ was right. I just think it'd be awesome to see her run down the hill. I wouldn't care nearly as much if it were on one of the normal turf courses where the average springt distance is 5-6f, but since it is at Santa Anita, she can go down the hill on that firm turf... Maybe she gets smoked, but it would be so cool to see.
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  #47  
Old 06-23-2012, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Calzone Lord View Post
Here is the history of the recent editions of the Diamond Jubilee.

2011: A pair of 25-to-1 shots finished 1st and 2nd.

2010: 50-to-1 shot 2nd.

2009: 20-to-1 winner, Cannonball 2nd for Wesley Ward, 33-to-1 third.

2008: 33-to-1 winner

2007: 9-to-1 winner

2006: 33-to-1 winner by a neck over 50-to-1 second place.

Euro turf horse are more and more superior to our turf horses as the further distances increase.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure their sprinters might be a little better than our turf sprinters ... but we have the fastest horses in the world and if all our good dirt sprinters and milers were tried on turf I think we'd probably have the worlds top turf sprinter on most years.

We have the fast horses here and we have the dirt horses here. When you start talking about turf racing distances of 12 furlongs, 14 furlongs, 16 furlongs... they completely own us. Even at a mile and 10 furlongs they have us.
Yes, our horses are faster here. By the same token, I have a hard time seeing too many of the US animals having a ton of success sprinting on the courses over the pond.
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  #48  
Old 06-23-2012, 05:38 PM
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Hardly any ever try. The mighty Cannonball almost won this race a few years ago.

He's a New York bred who is 4-for-36 lifetime -- but was in pretty good form at the time.

He returned here and won the Commentator Stakes at 5.5f on the turf (Commentator, now there's a great turf sprinter) and finished 3rd in the BC Turf Sprint that year.

Cannon Shell trained the dam of Cannonball.
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  #49  
Old 06-23-2012, 05:52 PM
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I'd like to see More Joyous come for the BC Mile but Gai Waterhouse probably wouldn't ship another horse.
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  #50  
Old 06-23-2012, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Calzone Lord View Post
Hardly any ever try. The mighty Cannonball almost won this race a few years ago.

He's a New York bred who is 4-for-36 lifetime -- but was in pretty good form at the time.

He returned here and won the Commentator Stakes at 5.5f on the turf (Commentator, now there's a great turf sprinter) and finished 3rd in the BC Turf Sprint that year.

Cannon Shell trained the dam of Cannonball.
I think it was it Var who won the big sprint in Frogland on Arc day 7 or 8 years ago? He was decidedly mediocre when he raced in the US before going to europe.
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  #51  
Old 06-23-2012, 08:51 PM
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Yeah. He was just an alw turf sprinter here for Mott and probably one of your inspiration for trying Battle One in Hong Kong.
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  #52  
Old 06-24-2012, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by outofthebox View Post
Did anyone notice on the coverage when Black Caviar came back to her handlers. Trainer Moody was conversing with the jock then the jock took Black Caviar off for a little jog, turned around and jogged back to the trainer. He could have been parading her in front of the crowd, don't know for sure. But she wasn't jogging so smooth..Hope she's ok...
http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/...-1226406958515

Good eye.

Probably explains why the ungraded stakes race at the same distance went faster in the next race. Her competition was the only thing that saved her yesterday.
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  #53  
Old 06-24-2012, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Alabama Stakes View Post
the track announcer said as much during the call of the race.. don't blame tvg for that one
i was beginning to feel that it was a zenyatta re-run. the tvg announcers seemed to name her more often than the actual star of yesterday, black caviar.
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  #54  
Old 06-24-2012, 10:05 PM
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Black Caviar's injury during the race - not the suspensory. She's torn her chest muscles before. Good reason for her awkward striding, and amazing she won. Nolen did a good job trying to protect her. May cause her to retire:

http://msn.foxsports.com/horseracing...cot-win-062412

The 6-year-old Black Caviar's mere presence created a real buzz at Ascot meeting, but the Australian horse tore back muscles during her victory in the Diamond Jubilee Stakes, which extended her winning streak to 22 races. She is a perfect 22 for 22 in her career.

Black Caviar's owners will make a decision on her future in the next three or four weeks and retirement is an option for the world's second-ranked flat racing horse, who gained a status akin to a national heroine in Australia after her Ascot triumph.

A veterinarian exam revealed two muscle tears and some bleeding in the area, The Australian newspaper reported Sunday.

"She's torn some muscles up high behind (hindquarter) and pulled up very tender," trainer Peter Moody told The Australian. "I'm just so proud of what she did in the circumstances. She's certainly going to enjoy a rest."
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  #55  
Old 06-25-2012, 02:11 PM
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Default See you in October, Black Caviar!

Good news! Black Caviar is not retired.

Quote:
PRELIMINARY scans have isolated Black Caviar's muscle tear to her quadriceps, giving Peter Moody confidence the mighty mare will get the opportunity to extend her unbeaten streak during the Melbourne spring carnival.

Initial fears that injuries sustained during the Diamond Jubilee Stakes could end her career have been dismissed with Moody eyeing the Group 1 Patinack Farm Classic (1200m) on the final day of the Melbourne Cup carnival.

"I have had my vets and chiropractors take some precautionary X-rays of Black Caviar,'' Moody said.

More detail, and race replay, at http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/su...-1226408441258
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  #56  
Old 06-25-2012, 03:52 PM
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Now the slow race doesn't look so bad. Actually it looks pretty damned impressive.

Very glad she's coming back. Hats off to Peter Moody and the owners for doing the right thing and keeping a race horse in racing...not breeding.

Take notes, sissy rich Americans.
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  #57  
Old 06-25-2012, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Coach Pants View Post
Now the slow race doesn't look so bad. Actually it looks pretty damned impressive.

Very glad she's coming back. Hats off to Peter Moody and the owners for doing the right thing and keeping a race horse in racing...not breeding.
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  #58  
Old 06-25-2012, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Coach Pants View Post
Now the slow race doesn't look so bad. Actually it looks pretty damned impressive.

Very glad she's coming back. Hats off to Peter Moody and the owners for doing the right thing and keeping a race horse in racing...not breeding.

Take notes, sissy rich Americans.
Disagree with this. The slow race wasn't only by her but also the horses she beat. Her injury may add to her performance and perhaps it's logical to think she could have gone a bit faster without the injury. But the second and third finishers didn't come out with injuries so that doesn't change the fact that the grade one race went slower than the next one.
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  #59  
Old 06-25-2012, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by King Glorious View Post
Disagree with this. The slow race wasn't only by her but also the horses she beat. Her injury may add to her performance and perhaps it's logical to think she could have gone a bit faster without the injury. But the second and third finishers didn't come out with injuries so that doesn't change the fact that the grade one race went slower than the next one.
Yes. And if she had been 100%, and able to run to her (130 rating) - correction, Timeform rates her at 136, rather than the 115 that race got, she may have smoked the other race in time, and beaten that field by 10 lengths. We don't know. Have you ever watched the mares previous races? She holds the all-time, all-Australia record for the fastest 200 meters mid-race ever: 9 plus seconds. What American race horses have ever run 9-10 second furlongs mid-race in a 6 or 7 furlong race? I'm sure there are a few, but it's rare - a job for Lord to search his records and find out for us.
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Last edited by Riot : 06-25-2012 at 05:21 PM.
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  #60  
Old 06-25-2012, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Riot View Post
Yes. And if she had been 100%, and able to run to her (130 rating) - correction, Timeform rates her at 136, rather than the 115 that race got, she may have smoked the other race in time, and beaten that field by 10 lengths. We don't know. Have you ever watched the mares previous races? She holds the all-time, all-Australia record for the fastest 200 meters mid-race ever: 9 plus seconds. What American race horses have ever run 9-10 second furlongs mid-race in a 6 or 7 furlong race? I'm sure there are a few, but it's rare - a job for Lord to search his records and find out for us.
I did concede that it's logical to think that she could have run faster and won by more but I also don't think it should be considered as automatic. The other horses in the race were supposedly of grade one quality and their finishes weren't compromised by injury and they were below what was done in the next race. So I think we either believe that her race, even without injury, would have been right about on the level with what handicap horses did the next race or we believe that without the injury, she would have destroyed the field by 10+ and gotten her usual rating. I she usually running off and winning top races by 10+?
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