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Old 06-07-2015, 05:22 AM
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Default Week/Weekend Stakes Beyers: Pharoah 105; Honor Code 112

BEL Belmont S (G1): American Pharoah 105 (Pioneerof the Nile) B. Baffert/V. Espinoza
BEL Metropolitan H (G1): Honor Code 112 (A.P. Indy) C. McGaughey/J. Castellano
BEL Manhattan S (G1): Slumber-GB 106 (Cacique-IRE) C. Brown/I. Ortiz
BEL Ogden Phipps S (G1): Wedding Toast 102 (Street Sense) K. McLaughlin/J. Lezcano
BEL Acorn S (G1): Curalina 92 (Curlin) T. Pletcher/J. Velazquez
BEL Just a Game S (G1): Tepin 101 (Bernstein) M. Casse/J. Leparoux
BEL Woody Stephens S (G2): March 95 (Blame) C. Brown/I. Ortiz
BEL Brooklyn S (G2): Coach Inge 102 (Big Brown) T. Pletcher/J. Velazquez
BEL Jaipur S (G3): Channel Marker 99 (Purim) P. Bauer/F. Torres
BEL New York S (G2): Waltzing Matilda-IRE 92 (Danehill Dancer-IRE) T. Stack/J. Alvarado
BEL True North S (G2): Rock Fall 110 (Speightstown) T. Pletcher/J. Castellano
BEL Belmont Gold Cup S: Innovation Economy 98 (Dynaformer) C. Brown/I. Ortiz
BEL Tremont S: Cocked and Loaded 79 (Colonel John) L. Rivelli/I. Ortiz
BEL Astoria S: Moment Is Right 70 (Medaglia d'Oro) W. Ward/J. Rosario
BEL Intercontinental S: Zindaya 95 (More Than Ready) C. Clement/M. Franco
BEL Jersey Girl S: Cavorting 100 (Bernardini) K. McLaughlin/I. Ortiz
BEL Easy Goer S: Japan 89 (Medaglia d'Oro) W. Mott/J. Alvarado
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Last edited by Kasept : 06-09-2015 at 09:10 AM.
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Old 06-07-2015, 05:22 AM
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SA Affirmed S (G3): Gimme Da Lute -- (Midnight Lute) B. Baffert/M. Garcia
SA Possibly Perfect H: Gaga A-URU -- (T. H. Approval) N. Drysdale/T. Baze
SA Crystal Water S: Patriots Rule 93 (Tribal Rule) R. Diodoro/F. Perez

MTH Monmouth S (G2): Triple Threat-FR 99 (Monsun-GER) W. Mott/J. Lezcano
MTH John McSorley S: Dreamsgonewild 92 (Freud) B. Alexander/T. McCarthy
MTH Crank It Up S: Lady Shipman 87 (Midshipman) K. O'Connell/E. Nunez

CD Mint Julep H (G3): Kiss Moon 92 (Malibu Moon) D. Vance/C. Lanerie

WO Eclipse S (G2): Are You Kidding Me 92 (Run Away and Hide) R. Attfield/A. Garcia
WO Steady Growth S: Pender Harbour 91 (Philanthropist) M. De Paulo/L. Contreras

EVD Evangeline Mile S: Mystery Train-ARG -- (Not For Sale-ARG) D. Vienna/C. Hernandez
EVD Lafayette S: Mobile Bay -- (Lone Star Special) V. Arceneaux/D. Saenz
EVD Acadiana S : Thiscatcanjam -- (Big Top Cat) A. Klanfer/C. Hernandez

PRX Jostle S: Warriorscmoutoplay 82 (Warrior's Reward) M. Stidham/J. Theriot

CBY Brooks Fields S: Az Ridge 92 (Toccet) D. McFarlane/G. Franco
CBY Minnesota H. B. P. A. Distaff S: Stoupinator 91 (Stormy Atlantic) M. Robertson/D. Butler

TDN Mackey Memorial Angenora S: Blazing Bling -- (Too Much Bling) T. Hamm/

GP Tiger Lily H: R Free Roll 87 (Rockport Harbor) K. Ziadie/E. Zayas
GP Tangelo H: Huasca 85 (Tiz Wonderful) E. Loza/E. Castro
GP Parrot Key S: Grande Shores 85 (Black Mambo) S. Gold/E. Castro
GP Big Cypress H: Requite 92 (Warrior's Reward) G. Weaver/E. Castro

FL George W. Barker S: Frisky Warrior 95 (Desert Warrior) R. D'Alessandro/J. Rodriguez

DEL Our Mims S: White Clover 82 (Exchange Rate) J. Jones/K. Clark
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Last edited by Kasept : 06-08-2015 at 05:10 AM.
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Old 06-07-2015, 08:41 AM
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Indian Charlie Indian Charlie is offline
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I'm glad to see that materiality and upstart are still the fastest horses in this crop.
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Old 06-07-2015, 12:17 PM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Originally Posted by Indian Charlie View Post
I'm glad to see that materiality and upstart are still the fastest horses in this crop.
IMO that fig should be adjusted(lowered) substantially. Florida Derby 2015 was slow on the clock and while track was goofy its just proven to be a key race for overrating colts.

Two plausible reasons the fig will be left alone. Inconsistent Drugs laws in Florida and or both Upstart and Materialty are trained by people who when their horses go off form rarely return to best form? I do not know. I bought Upstart because of his very good 2 year old races I never subscribed to Materialty tremendous talent. What do I know
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Old 06-07-2015, 02:44 PM
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I'm glad to see that materiality and upstart are still the fastest horses in this crop.
I'm sure Andy Beyer will find a way to knock AP and belittling Gary Young again for making his comment about AP before the Derby.
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Old 06-07-2015, 10:33 PM
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I'm sure Andy Beyer will find a way to knock AP and belittling Gary Young again for making his comment about AP before the Derby.
What comment is that?
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Old 06-08-2015, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Indian Charlie View Post
What comment is that?
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...kout/26409955/
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Old 06-08-2015, 04:23 AM
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I'm sure Andy Beyer will find a way to knock AP and belittling Gary Young again for making his comment about AP before the Derby.
Actually, he couldn't have been more complimentary of American Pharoah and his achievement.
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Old 06-08-2015, 04:24 AM
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Beyer: American Pharoah defied all obstacles

As a dozen horses since 1978 tried to win the Belmont Stakes and the Triple Crown, racing purists have harbored mixed feelings about some of these bids. It would be almost a sacrilege for a less-than-great horse to have his name inscribed on the list of Triple Crown winners that includes some of the sport’s immortals.

American Pharoah is not another Secretariat, Affirmed, or Seattle Slew. But after his front-running victory Saturday, he deserves an exalted place in racing history, for he swept the Kentucky Derby, Preakness, and Belmont Stakes at a time when the feat has become more difficult than ever.

American Pharoah has the most potent combination of strengths that a horse can possess in American dirt racing. He has high speed, but also has the talent and temperament to conserve that speed and employ it when his jockey asks. Accordingly, American Pharoah has been able to get an ideal tactical position in every one of his seven straight victories. And that is what he did in the Belmont.

Most of his seven rivals lacked any early speed; only Materiality had ever displayed enough quickness to indicate that he might challenge the favorite. His trainer, Todd Pletcher, declared, “We’ve got to put some pressure on American Pharoah.” But Materiality couldn’t do it — he delivered a dismal performance and finished last -- and American Pharoah immediately seized the lead.

"In the first turn,” jockey Victor Espinoza said, "it was the best feeling I’ve ever had.” After he set a moderate pace over the exceptionally fast racing surface — a half mile in 48.83 seconds, six furlongs in 1:13.41 — the outcome of the Belmont was decided. American Pharoah had plenty of energy left to draw away strongly in the stretch, and racing had its 12th Triple Crown winner.

It is difficult for many handicappers (myself included) to heap lavish praise on horses who win with perfect trips like this one. After a horse captures a race with an unchallenged early lead, we’re looking to bet against him the next time he runs, not anoint him a superhorse.

And American Pharoah’s performance in the Belmont was not of superhorse quality, no matter what millions of viewers might have thought as they watched him drawing away to win by 5 ˝ lengths. He ran 1 ˝ miles in 2:26.65 on the same card that a fair-to-middling group of older stakes horses covered the distance only .48 second slower. It was certainly a good effort: His Beyer Speed Figure of 105 was the best in the Belmont since 2007, but still a bit below the historical norm for the race.

Before making a definitive judgment about how American Pharoah stacks up against the all-time greats, racing fans should wait to see him challenge top older horses later in the year. That’s usually the acid test for a 3-year-old. Affirmed and Seattle Slew did not fully certify their greatness until their post-Triple Crown phase of their careers.

Regardless of the quality of his individual performances, and regardless of what he does in the future, American Pharoah’s sweep of the three classics is an achievement more notable than those of the 11 horses who did it before him.

The weeks leading up to his Belmont were filled with discussion about the reasons that the Triple Crown has been so difficult to win for the last 37 years. Some horses of the past lost because of bad rides or because they encountered a superior rival. But in recent years, three significant developments have affected 3-year-olds bidding for the Triple Crown:
  • * Because of their popularity and large purses, the Triple Crown races have attracted big fields that make them more difficult to win. Citation faced a grand total of 15 rivals in three races; American Pharoah had to defeat 17 in the Derby alone.
  • * As the breeding of U.S. Thoroughbreds has changed, virtually no horses have a pedigree to run 1 ˝ miles on the dirt, creating an obstacle that didn’t affect the stamina-rich horses of previous generations.
  • * Racing three times in five weeks is too difficult for modern-day horses, who are regularly given much more time between starts -- except in the Triple Crown. From 2006 until this year, 23 horses ran in the Preakness and came back to run in the Belmont three weeks later. All 23 lost. Fresh horses who rest five weeks from the Derby to the Belmont now hold a significant advantage.

These factors weren’t relevant in the Triple Crown until early in the new millennium, and they are becoming more important. U.S. horses continue to be bred with an emphasis of speed over stamina. Horses need and get more rest between races. In view of these trends, Triple Crown winners will be increasingly rare. American Pharoah’s sweep will look even more impressive if nobody duplicates the feat for another 37 years.
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Old 06-08-2015, 09:38 AM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Originally Posted by Kasept View Post
Beyer: American Pharoah defied all obstacles


Most of his seven rivals lacked any early speed; only Materiality had ever displayed enough quickness to indicate that he might challenge the favorite. His trainer, Todd Pletcher, declared, “We’ve got to put some pressure on American Pharoah.” But Materiality couldn’t do it — he delivered a dismal performance and finished last -- and American Pharoah immediately seized the lead.





And American Pharoah’s performance in the Belmont was not of superhorse quality, no matter what millions of viewers might have thought as they watched him drawing away to win by 5 ˝ lengths. He ran 1 ˝ miles in 2:26.65 on the same card that a fair-to-middling group of older stakes horses covered the distance only .48 second slower. It was certainly a good effort: His Beyer Speed Figure of 105 was the best in the Belmont since 2007, but still a bit below the historical norm for the race.



Before making a definitive judgment about how American Pharoah stacks up against the all-time greats, racing fans should wait to see him challenge top older horses later in the year. That’s usually the acid test for a 3-year-old. Affirmed and Seattle Slew did not fully certify their greatness until their post-Triple Crown phase of their careers.
Materiality's last race?


Sounds like Beyer would like Coach Inge at 12f's at 12/1 vs. AP at even money? I guess that's fair?
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Old 06-08-2015, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasept View Post
Beyer: American Pharoah defied all obstacles

As a dozen horses since 1978 tried to win the Belmont Stakes and the Triple Crown, racing purists have harbored mixed feelings about some of these bids. It would be almost a sacrilege for a less-than-great horse to have his name inscribed on the list of Triple Crown winners that includes some of the sport’s immortals.

American Pharoah is not another Secretariat, Affirmed, or Seattle Slew. But after his front-running victory Saturday, he deserves an exalted place in racing history, for he swept the Kentucky Derby, Preakness, and Belmont Stakes at a time when the feat has become more difficult than ever.

American Pharoah has the most potent combination of strengths that a horse can possess in American dirt racing. He has high speed, but also has the talent and temperament to conserve that speed and employ it when his jockey asks. Accordingly, American Pharoah has been able to get an ideal tactical position in every one of his seven straight victories. And that is what he did in the Belmont.

Most of his seven rivals lacked any early speed; only Materiality had ever displayed enough quickness to indicate that he might challenge the favorite. His trainer, Todd Pletcher, declared, “We’ve got to put some pressure on American Pharoah.” But Materiality couldn’t do it — he delivered a dismal performance and finished last -- and American Pharoah immediately seized the lead.

"In the first turn,” jockey Victor Espinoza said, "it was the best feeling I’ve ever had.” After he set a moderate pace over the exceptionally fast racing surface — a half mile in 48.83 seconds, six furlongs in 1:13.41 — the outcome of the Belmont was decided. American Pharoah had plenty of energy left to draw away strongly in the stretch, and racing had its 12th Triple Crown winner.

It is difficult for many handicappers (myself included) to heap lavish praise on horses who win with perfect trips like this one. After a horse captures a race with an unchallenged early lead, we’re looking to bet against him the next time he runs, not anoint him a superhorse.

And American Pharoah’s performance in the Belmont was not of superhorse quality, no matter what millions of viewers might have thought as they watched him drawing away to win by 5 ˝ lengths. He ran 1 ˝ miles in 2:26.65 on the same card that a fair-to-middling group of older stakes horses covered the distance only .48 second slower. It was certainly a good effort: His Beyer Speed Figure of 105 was the best in the Belmont since 2007, but still a bit below the historical norm for the race.

Before making a definitive judgment about how American Pharoah stacks up against the all-time greats, racing fans should wait to see him challenge top older horses later in the year. That’s usually the acid test for a 3-year-old. Affirmed and Seattle Slew did not fully certify their greatness until their post-Triple Crown phase of their careers.

Regardless of the quality of his individual performances, and regardless of what he does in the future, American Pharoah’s sweep of the three classics is an achievement more notable than those of the 11 horses who did it before him.

The weeks leading up to his Belmont were filled with discussion about the reasons that the Triple Crown has been so difficult to win for the last 37 years. Some horses of the past lost because of bad rides or because they encountered a superior rival. But in recent years, three significant developments have affected 3-year-olds bidding for the Triple Crown:
  • * Because of their popularity and large purses, the Triple Crown races have attracted big fields that make them more difficult to win. Citation faced a grand total of 15 rivals in three races; American Pharoah had to defeat 17 in the Derby alone.
  • * As the breeding of U.S. Thoroughbreds has changed, virtually no horses have a pedigree to run 1 ˝ miles on the dirt, creating an obstacle that didn’t affect the stamina-rich horses of previous generations.
  • * Racing three times in five weeks is too difficult for modern-day horses, who are regularly given much more time between starts -- except in the Triple Crown. From 2006 until this year, 23 horses ran in the Preakness and came back to run in the Belmont three weeks later. All 23 lost. Fresh horses who rest five weeks from the Derby to the Belmont now hold a significant advantage.

These factors weren’t relevant in the Triple Crown until early in the new millennium, and they are becoming more important. U.S. horses continue to be bred with an emphasis of speed over stamina. Horses need and get more rest between races. In view of these trends, Triple Crown winners will be increasingly rare. American Pharoah’s sweep will look even more impressive if nobody duplicates the feat for another 37 years.
I like how he makes it sound as if Materiality sort of just ran around the track near the back of the pack.

Also, Brisnet rated the race as one of their highest they've ever done.

Some lifetime bests:

easy goer 118
sunday silence 115
formal gold 118
skip away 116
cigar 117
holy bull 112
curlin 121


Ap's Belmont was 117.

Not sure I'd go quite this far on this, but it seem to be MUCH closer to reality.
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Old 06-08-2015, 03:21 PM
freddymo freddymo is offline
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Originally Posted by Indian Charlie View Post
I like how he makes it sound as if Materiality sort of just ran around the track near the back of the pack.

Also, Brisnet rated the race as one of their highest they've ever done.

Some lifetime bests:

easy goer 118
sunday silence 115
formal gold 118
skip away 116
cigar 117
holy bull 112
curlin 121


Ap's Belmont was 117.

Not sure I'd go quite this far on this, but it seem to be MUCH closer to reality.
CJ had a fairly strong view of race..118 on old scale 128 on the new version of figs.. 118 on the old scale is like a 111/112 BSF equivalent
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Old 06-08-2015, 03:28 PM
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CJ had a fairly strong view of race..118 on old scale 128 on the new version of figs.. 118 on the old scale is like a 111/112 BSF equivalent
That's much more believable.

It was far from the greatest performance I've ever seen, but 105 is not realistic either.
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Old 06-08-2015, 06:50 PM
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He ran 1 ˝ miles in 2:26.65 on the same card that a fair-to-middling group of older stakes horses covered the distance only .48 second slower. It was certainly a good effort: His Beyer Speed Figure of 105 was the best in the Belmont since 2007, but still a bit below the historical norm for the race.

I chuckled......
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Old 06-08-2015, 07:59 PM
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Point Given has still had the most visually and highest Beyer rated Belmont given a 114 in recent memory which is now 14 years ago. Damn time flies
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Old 06-08-2015, 09:20 PM
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I dunno; that Beyer piece seems to be a textbook example of damning with faint praise.
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Old 06-08-2015, 10:44 PM
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I dunno; that Beyer piece seems to be a textbook example of damning with faint praise.
That much is obvious.
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Old 06-09-2015, 04:48 AM
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That much is obvious.
What's obvious is that enjoying accomplishments for what they are while appreciating perspective which critical analysis offers has become impossible.
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Old 06-09-2015, 04:54 AM
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Regardless of the quality of his individual performances, and regardless of what he does in the future, American Pharoah’s sweep of the three classics is an achievement more notable than those of the 11 horses who did it before him.

Beyer's praise is so faint that he single's out American Pharoah's Triple Crown as the more impressive than the 11 that came before.
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Old 06-09-2015, 08:00 AM
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What's obvious is that enjoying accomplishments for what they are while appreciating perspective which critical analysis offers has become impossible.
I agree.
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