Derby Trail Forums

Go Back   Derby Trail Forums > Main Forum > Equine Health, Retirement & Aftercare
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 05-18-2015, 02:28 PM
DonGuido's Avatar
DonGuido DonGuido is offline
Oaklawn
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 2,160
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickslions2 View Post
Looks like someone was watching Goodfellows last night
Nope but I have seen it many times and also have studied the Mafia for some time. Fascinating beginning in Italy and their history.
I grew up in a small town in upstate NY close to where the mafia used to hold there summer meetings in Apalachin, NY. My cousin lived on the main road to get to the "hide out" campus in the thick woods and it was a campus of multiple cabins. I'd visit him now and then and every so often playing in the front yard we'd see a constant long row of black cadillacs driving about a 1/2 mile past his house and then turning up into the woods. We never knew what was going on until we got much older but thinking back, it was pretty cool.

My wife and I rented our first upstairs apartment over a house owned by and Italian family (nice family) and it was clear he (the father) and his friends were involved in the underworld . . . if not big time, at least in a fairly obvious way. I would often knock on the side door of the basement off the alleyway and tell the somewhat rotund guy with the crooked nose who'd come to the door, and who did not live there, I had the money to pay the rent. He'd leave for couple of minutes and come back and said Mr. (nameless) said it's OK to give me the rent money. What was I gonna do say no? And for the 9 months we lived there we never had one issue with the rent or with the family.
__________________
The wind of heaven is that which blows between a horse’s ears – Arabian Proverb
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 05-18-2015, 04:48 PM
parsixfarms parsixfarms is offline
Churchill Downs
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Saratoga Springs
Posts: 1,758
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Frederick View Post
Don't think anyone is suggesting running every last bit of soundness out of them.
But isn't that the history of the trainer for his last race? His post-race quotes show how much he doesn't get it.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 05-18-2015, 06:36 PM
my miss storm cat's Avatar
my miss storm cat my miss storm cat is offline
Saratoga
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,033
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis View Post


I've always wondered which side of my family had been responsible for my egomanical reasoning... Coulda swore it was the Irish
The more you know...
__________________
avatar ~ Soriano

Last edited by my miss storm cat : 05-18-2015 at 06:37 PM. Reason: not worth it
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 05-18-2015, 09:45 PM
Jay Frederick Jay Frederick is offline
Sunshine Park
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 91
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by my miss storm cat View Post
Respectfully, in this instance, I think this is the middle ground.

Great post, Sightie... always nice when someone is able to convey the thoughts that I think a few of us here share.

I'm sorry to bring up something so sad and about an older warrior we all loved (or who at least was a fan and forum favorite), but maybe this is part of it...

I do not know Mr. Repole at all and am not trying to be presumptuous or attempt to psychoanalyze him but maybe this is relative (?):

Repole said he had considered retiring Caixa Eletronica at the end of both his 7- and 8-year-old seasons, but the horse was sound and seemed to enjoy running and training so much that he kept him going. Repole said he turned down offers from farms in Indiana, Oklahoma, and overseas to stand the horse as a stallion. Repole said his plan was to retire the horse to Old Friends in Saratoga.

“Growing up in Queens these are the horses that I fell in love with, not the Saturday horses, but the Wednesday and Thursday horses,” Repole said. “Caixa was that type of horse that turned into a special horse.”


http://www.drf.com/news/belmont-park...ining-accident

So that's why I think this is a win win and that this just might be the middle ground. If nothing else why not be a little more careful with an older horse...

Glad for all involved. Always nice to see a happy ending.
Maybe it is the middle ground, I don't know. What I do know is what happened to Caixa Eletronica (a personal favorite of mine) could have just as easily happened to a 2 year old. Age had nothing to do with his accident. If we need to be more careful as they get older than maybe they shouldn't be running at all.

I am very happy to see Be Bullish go out a winner. I just think there is more to meets the eye here and that some of the people involved should look at how they run their own stables instead of trying to meddle in others.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 05-18-2015, 09:52 PM
Jay Frederick Jay Frederick is offline
Sunshine Park
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 91
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by parsixfarms View Post
But isn't that the history of the trainer for his last race? His post-race quotes show how much he doesn't get it.
For the most part yes. He and a lot of other trainers squeeze what they can and discard. I'm not defending Jacobson's history, because there is no defending it.

But let's remember how the events unfolded here. Repole claimed him a few months back to retire him. Made sure the media knew about how nice it was he was going to retire him. Then proceeded to not retire him and run him where he could claimed....which he was.

They tried to embarrass Jacobson once already. He should comply with them after that? Just being honest here, not sure I would have either.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 05-18-2015, 09:56 PM
Danzig's Avatar
Danzig Danzig is offline
Dee Tee Stables
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: The Natural State
Posts: 29,948
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Frederick View Post
Maybe it is the middle ground, I don't know. What I do know is what happened to Caixa Eletronica (a personal favorite of mine) could have just as easily happened to a 2 year old. Age had nothing to do with his accident. If we need to be more careful as they get older than maybe they shouldn't be running at all.

I am very happy to see Be Bullish go out a winner. I just think there is more to meets the eye here and that some of the people involved should look at how they run their own stables instead of trying to meddle in others.
Sometimes i see a comment (and not usually on this site) that makes me wonder if the writer is a racing fan. We all know horses can go at any time, a day old to 30 years or older. A paddock accident, training, a gallop out, a van ride, foaling, etc. If a horse still enjoys racing and is healthy, let him have his fun.
We have to hope those handling the horse does the right thing....of course its not always the case, we all know that. So, you have to hope for the best. Theres no magic number agewise, or number of races wise...
I hope be bullish enjoys his retirement!
__________________
Books serve to show a man that those original thoughts of his aren't very new at all.
Abraham Lincoln
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 05-19-2015, 06:26 AM
parsixfarms parsixfarms is offline
Churchill Downs
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Saratoga Springs
Posts: 1,758
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Frederick View Post
For the most part yes. He and a lot of other trainers squeeze what they can and discard. I'm not defending Jacobson's history, because there is no defending it.

But let's remember how the events unfolded here. Repole claimed him a few months back to retire him. Made sure the media knew about how nice it was he was going to retire him. Then proceeded to not retire him and run him where he could claimed....which he was.

They tried to embarrass Jacobson once already. He should comply with them after that? Just being honest here, not sure I would have either.
There's no embarrassing Jacobson. He showed his colors in the Tour of the Cat episode shortly after he returned to training, and his MO hasn't changed since then.

In just the last six months, we've seen the demise of nine year-old Cherokee Artist, and the retirements of Socialsaul and Be Bullish while Jacobson was racing them at or near the bottom. (As someone else on the site said, why is it always someone other than Jacobson who has to right by the horse?)
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 05-19-2015, 07:59 AM
Jay Frederick Jay Frederick is offline
Sunshine Park
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 91
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by parsixfarms View Post
There's no embarrassing Jacobson. He showed his colors in the Tour of the Cat episode shortly after he returned to training, and his MO hasn't changed since then.

In just the last six months, we've seen the demise of nine year-old Cherokee Artist, and the retirements of Socialsaul and Be Bullish while Jacobson was racing them at or near the bottom. (As someone else on the site said, why is it always someone other than Jacobson who has to right by the horse?)
You don't need to convince me about Jacobson. I agree with everything you say. I'm no fan of his. Some of his actions have been gross and he's made playing races in NY even harder than normal.

I just don't think he's wrong in this case. If they wanted to retire Be Bullish, they should have when they claimed him the first time.

I guess I find the attitude that it's somehow not dignified for him to be running in the races he is kind of odd. Did Be Bullish tell someone he's not happy? His performance on the track recently doesn't really look like a horse who isn't enjoying themselves. And how do we know he'll be happier not running?

I'm way more concerned about the older horses running up the track for the bottom at places like Mountaineer than I am horses running and winning for 16k in NY.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 05-19-2015, 08:47 AM
my miss storm cat's Avatar
my miss storm cat my miss storm cat is offline
Saratoga
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,033
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Frederick View Post
Maybe it is the middle ground, I don't know. What I do know is what happened to Caixa Eletronica (a personal favorite of mine) could have just as easily happened to a 2 year old. Age had nothing to do with his accident. If we need to be more careful as they get older than maybe they shouldn't be running at all.

I am very happy to see Be Bullish go out a winner. I just think there is more to meets the eye here and that some of the people involved should look at how they run their own stables instead of trying to meddle in others.
I appreciate your thoughtful and articulate response and yes, glad to see him go out a winner too.

You are right about Caixa... I do wonder if that haunts the man, you know? If deep inside he rationalizes doing this as a way of (wrong choice of words here, but )"making up" for that. Like he couldn't save one so he saves the other and believe me.. if anyone dumps on me for such an outrageous statement I totally deserve it but it's my thought and I am comfortable saying such a thing to YOU.

Again, I am no one to speculate on such matters but its a forum and all opinion and so that is my... that is what I wonder.
__________________
avatar ~ Soriano
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 05-19-2015, 09:29 AM
parsixfarms parsixfarms is offline
Churchill Downs
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Saratoga Springs
Posts: 1,758
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay Frederick View Post
You don't need to convince me about Jacobson. I agree with everything you say. I'm no fan of his. Some of his actions have been gross and he's made playing races in NY even harder than normal.

I just don't think he's wrong in this case. If they wanted to retire Be Bullish, they should have when they claimed him the first time.

I guess I find the attitude that it's somehow not dignified for him to be running in the races he is kind of odd. Did Be Bullish tell someone he's not happy? His performance on the track recently doesn't really look like a horse who isn't enjoying themselves. And how do we know he'll be happier not running?

I'm way more concerned about the older horses running up the track for the bottom at places like Mountaineer than I am horses running and winning for 16k in NY.
I'm ambivalent when it comes to Repole's involvement in this. That said, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in this case when he intimated that, in December, he was looking to run Be Bullish one more time, so he could go out a millionaire. Of course, when Jacobson claimed Be Bullish out of that December race, if that was the "plan," it got altered.

Ultimately, if we want to ensure that the OTTB can have a second act (and not just be a pasture ornament), it is far better to choose to retire the horse a race or two too early than being forced to do it a race too late. And therein lies the fundamental problem in this case: at the end of his career, Be Bullish was with a trainer whose conduct suggests that he either does not grasp the prior sentence or worse, simply chooses to ignore it. That Be Bullish was winning races for Jacobson does not necessarily mean that he was happy and/or sound (as Freddy intimated earlier in this thread).
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 05-19-2015, 10:12 AM
my miss storm cat's Avatar
my miss storm cat my miss storm cat is offline
Saratoga
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,033
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonGuido View Post
Nope but I have seen it many times and also have studied the Mafia for some time. Fascinating beginning in Italy and their history.
I grew up in a small town in upstate NY close to where the mafia used to hold there summer meetings in Apalachin, NY. My cousin lived on the main road to get to the "hide out" campus in the thick woods and it was a campus of multiple cabins. I'd visit him now and then and every so often playing in the front yard we'd see a constant long row of black cadillacs driving about a 1/2 mile past his house and then turning up into the woods. We never knew what was going on until we got much older but thinking back, it was pretty cool.

My wife and I rented our first upstairs apartment over a house owned by and Italian family (nice family) and it was clear he (the father) and his friends were involved in the underworld . . . if not big time, at least in a fairly obvious way. I would often knock on the side door of the basement off the alleyway and tell the somewhat rotund guy with the crooked nose who'd come to the door, and who did not live there, I had the money to pay the rent. He'd leave for couple of minutes and come back and said Mr. (nameless) said it's OK to give me the rent money. What was I gonna do say no? And for the 9 months we lived there we never had one issue with the rent or with the family.
You know I deleted my other comment cause it just wasn't worth it but I do want to say something only this time will not apologize in advance...

It is cute reading mob comments.

There is a mountain in Sicily that I now have the deed to. A cool, historic and worthless piece of paper and my kids do not understand why I don't just call the police. That is pure comedy. This is not visiting Taormina for a few days or seeing a performance of Cavalleria Rusticana. This is not watching the Godfather trilogy or Goodfellas. This is real life.

Now I don't know what you call the kind of squatters who build homes on a grand scale. Okay not villas and not mansions BUT seriously nice homes.

Oh did I mention the guards? You know, those nice beefy boys with perpetual tans and prominent noses who probably shed tears at the opera and love their mothers and who display great abs visible thought the open shirts on hot days (see I can make generalizations too)? Well okay maybe they aren't all so movie-like BUT they all have Uzis or something similar.

See the thing about romanticizing this thing of ours is that it is fiction. It is a story. Now I do admit to enjoying films depicting the Mafia and I have my fav gangsters lol I have read about BUT BUT BUT I cannot say that I know anything truly when it comes to such things.

I have heard stories my whole life mainly about my grandparents... the one that sticks out is about my grandfather who was left behind to work as tailors apprentice and saved till he was 14 to sail over alone to join the rest of the family in NY. I will cut to the chase but it involved a gun to his head and a little reminder that he didn't see anything, capisce...

So enjoy being called Don and watching Goodfellas.

There are thousands of people who were never born cause their fathers especially were treated like tissues and discarded as they were deemed garbage by thugs with bullets and delusions of mediocrity.

Again I do not presume to know much here but you are making light of a subject that, while it is dramatic and makes for great films, is perhaps a bit more serious that you seem to suggest with your tales of neighbors who were nice.
__________________
avatar ~ Soriano
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 05-19-2015, 12:36 PM
Sightseek's Avatar
Sightseek Sightseek is offline
Flemington
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,027
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by parsixfarms View Post
I'm ambivalent when it comes to Repole's involvement in this. That said, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in this case when he intimated that, in December, he was looking to run Be Bullish one more time, so he could go out a millionaire. Of course, when Jacobson claimed Be Bullish out of that December race, if that was the "plan," it got altered.

Ultimately, if we want to ensure that the OTTB can have a second act (and not just be a pasture ornament), it is far better to choose to retire the horse a race or two too early than being forced to do it a race too late. And therein lies the fundamental problem in this case: at the end of his career, Be Bullish was with a trainer whose conduct suggests that he either does not grasp the prior sentence or worse, simply chooses to ignore it. That Be Bullish was winning races for Jacobson does not necessarily mean that he was happy and/or sound (as Freddy intimated earlier in this thread).


Jay Frederick, I do think there is truth to horses not being happy in retirement and that is a judgment call that Old Friends will have to make to see if Be Bullish needs "a job."
__________________
Tod Marks Photo - Daybreak over Oklahoma
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 05-19-2015, 01:13 PM
DonGuido's Avatar
DonGuido DonGuido is offline
Oaklawn
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 2,160
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by my miss storm cat View Post
You know I deleted my other comment cause it just wasn't worth it but I do want to say something only this time will not apologize in advance...

It is cute reading mob comments.

There is a mountain in Sicily that I now have the deed to. A cool, historic and worthless piece of paper and my kids do not understand why I don't just call the police. That is pure comedy. This is not visiting Taormina for a few days or seeing a performance of Cavalleria Rusticana. This is not watching the Godfather trilogy or Goodfellas. This is real life.

Now I don't know what you call the kind of squatters who build homes on a grand scale. Okay not villas and not mansions BUT seriously nice homes.

Oh did I mention the guards? You know, those nice beefy boys with perpetual tans and prominent noses who probably shed tears at the opera and love their mothers and who display great abs visible thought the open shirts on hot days (see I can make generalizations too)? Well okay maybe they aren't all so movie-like BUT they all have Uzis or something similar.

See the thing about romanticizing this thing of ours is that it is fiction. It is a story. Now I do admit to enjoying films depicting the Mafia and I have my fav gangsters lol I have read about BUT BUT BUT I cannot say that I know anything truly when it comes to such things.

I have heard stories my whole life mainly about my grandparents... the one that sticks out is about my grandfather who was left behind to work as tailors apprentice and saved till he was 14 to sail over alone to join the rest of the family in NY. I will cut to the chase but it involved a gun to his head and a little reminder that he didn't see anything, capisce...

So enjoy being called Don and watching Goodfellas.

There are thousands of people who were never born cause their fathers especially were treated like tissues and discarded as they were deemed garbage by thugs with bullets and delusions of mediocrity.

Again I do not presume to know much here but you are making light of a subject that, while it is dramatic and makes for great films, is perhaps a bit more serious that you seem to suggest with your tales of neighbors who were nice.
WOW!!! Interesting post other than it rambling all over the place. I could retort on many of your assumptions in general and about me but you have blown this up into a volcano in your own mind. Not sure why. And you seem to have a beef with me or is that an assumption? One thing that's real is I will continue to enjoy being called Don, since that is my real name.

BTW - DonGuido is simply an AKA for the fun of it.
__________________
The wind of heaven is that which blows between a horse’s ears – Arabian Proverb
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 06-14-2015, 01:08 AM
Zaf's Avatar
Zaf Zaf is offline
Ak-Sar-Ben
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 697
Default

Be Bullish , shot this with my iPhone July 2014
Attached Images
File Type: jpg bb.jpg (77.0 KB, 7 views)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.