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  #21  
Old 11-04-2016, 08:34 PM
RHT2004 RHT2004 is offline
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Originally Posted by knickslions2 View Post
Really third best? Well just when I thought you couldn't top yourself you did.
Considering the pace, yes. 3rd place horse ran very well.
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  #22  
Old 11-04-2016, 08:35 PM
RHT2004 RHT2004 is offline
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Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind View Post
She was third best.
Thanks. Great minds.....
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  #23  
Old 11-04-2016, 08:35 PM
Alabama Stakes Alabama Stakes is offline
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What was it Dennis farina said in midnight run ?
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  #24  
Old 11-04-2016, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by RHT2004 View Post
Considering the pace, yes. 3rd place horse ran very well.
SHe had every chance and had nothing.....
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  #25  
Old 11-04-2016, 08:39 PM
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knickslions2 knickslions2 is offline
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Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind View Post
She was third best.
Lol you guys make my head spin. I respect your opinion Andy but Songbird controlled race and got beat by nose in bob. She was second best. Forever unbridled wasn't catching either horse.
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  #26  
Old 11-04-2016, 08:41 PM
RHT2004 RHT2004 is offline
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Originally Posted by knickslions2 View Post
Lol you guys make my head spin. I respect your opinion Andy but Songbird controlled race and got beat by nose in bob. She was second best. Forever unbridled wasn't catching either horse.
Funny he says it and you respect it, I say it more shots.
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  #27  
Old 11-04-2016, 08:41 PM
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I thought the track start to look really lose, I thought the dirt mile was slow, then the filly race was slow for those quality of horses.

I will see what Craig comes up with but that was what I thought watching through the day.
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  #28  
Old 11-04-2016, 08:43 PM
Alabama Stakes Alabama Stakes is offline
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Why do the replays show the one win the bob.?
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  #29  
Old 11-04-2016, 08:51 PM
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Funny he says it and you respect it, I say it more shots.
well you did call me a goon. I'm tired and grumpy. Been stuck in airports all day and lost the late pick 4 to a shitty 35-1 horse. That was a great race and songbird deserves some credit. No way forever unbridled was better. We don't get many great races like that. On that note I'm out. Good luck tomorrow
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  #30  
Old 11-04-2016, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind View Post
She was third best.

And the logic would be ?
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  #31  
Old 11-04-2016, 08:55 PM
RHT2004 RHT2004 is offline
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Originally Posted by knickslions2 View Post
well you did call me a goon. I'm tired and grumpy. Been stuck in airports all day and lost the late pick 4 to a shitty 35-1 horse. That was a great race and songbird deserves some credit. No way forever unbridled was better. We don't get many great races like that. On that note I'm out. Good luck tomorrow
You have been a goon. But it's cool. Good luck tomorrow.
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  #32  
Old 11-04-2016, 08:56 PM
RHT2004 RHT2004 is offline
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And the logic would be ?
I think I've explained it.
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  #33  
Old 11-04-2016, 09:00 PM
LITF LITF is offline
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Probably she was third best today after carving out that uncontested pace. However, if you line that octet up next Saturday I'll take Songbird over Forever Unbridled. And I bet Forever Unbridled today. Thought the top quartet all ran great (would've loved to see Stellar Wind not miss the break). Songbird just got beat by a hall of fame bound horse and by the slimmest of margins. She fought down to the wire which was what people wanted to see. Can't wait to see her next year.

Hard to think of a better start to the weekend.
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  #34  
Old 11-04-2016, 09:06 PM
blackthroatedwind blackthroatedwind is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knickslions2 View Post
Lol you guys make my head spin. I respect your opinion Andy but Songbird controlled race and got beat by nose in bob. She was second best. Forever unbridled wasn't catching either horse.
I don't agree. She was able to set a VERY moderate pace, partly with the help of her owner's usual trainer's horse riding shotgun, and further keeping Beholder out. Given the dynamics, Forever Unbridled probably ran a better race. It may be close....but it's close at worst:-)

The problem with a lot of Songbird's fans ( and I am not saying this is you ) is that they had completely unrealistic expectations going in. If you bet her at even money, you made a horrendous bet, as even under perfect circumstances ( slow pace, Stellar Wind not showing up, and Beholder getting pushed wide ) she lost. Sure it was close. Sure she ran well. No sane person criticized Songbird going in, they simply said she was a bad bet at a short price. Isn't that exactly what proved the case?

Regardless, it was a thrilling race. Hopefully everyone enjoyed it. I sure as hell did. Maybe some of us even learned something from it. What could be better than all that?
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  #35  
Old 11-04-2016, 09:08 PM
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It will be interesting to see if Songbird can make the same jump from 3 to 4 as she did from 2 to 3, and like Beholder, IMO did between 3 and 4. She might be ok then.
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  #36  
Old 11-04-2016, 09:12 PM
saratogadew saratogadew is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind View Post
I don't agree. She was able to set a VERY moderate pace, partly with the help of her owner's usual trainer's horse riding shotgun, and further keeping Beholder out. Given the dynamics, Forever Unbridled probably ran a better race. It may be close....but it's close at worst:-)

The problem with a lot of Songbird's fans ( and I am not saying this is you ) is that they had completely unrealistic expectations going in. If you bet her at even money, you made a horrendous bet, as even under perfect circumstances ( slow pace, Stellar Wind not showing up, and Beholder getting pushed wide ) she lost. Sure it was close. Sure she ran well. No sane person criticized Songbird going in, they simply said she was a bad bet at a short price. Isn't that exactly what proved the case?

Regardless, it was a thrilling race. Hopefully everyone enjoyed it. I sure as hell did. Maybe some of us even learned something from it. What could be better than all that?
Bringing me down
i"m running around
Bling in the light of the interstate cars
passin" me by
busses and semi's
plungin' like stones............................................ .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................i left st louie.....city of blues
SMOKIN
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  #37  
Old 11-04-2016, 09:14 PM
saratogadew saratogadew is offline
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OOHH OOHH im drowing in you>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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  #38  
Old 11-04-2016, 09:41 PM
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If honesty is to rule, it wasn't simply saying she was a bad bet at a short price. That would be a rational way of thinking that probably shouldn't be argued against. But the ridicule was towards anyone daring to believe she was good enough. We were told that she didn't have a race as fast as theirs. That it was ridiculous to believe she could do better if asked to. That she was lengths slower. The fact is that if she had lost by 10 and wasn't a factor, we would have heard it from them. But with her acquitting herself the way she did, you're seeing a bunch of hurt feelings and reluctant praise and revisionist accounts of what people said before.
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  #39  
Old 11-04-2016, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up View Post
I am trying to think back in my mind of races when two champions hooked up at the quarter pole and ran like to the wire to be separated by a couple inches....its rare.

Beholder is so great, as good a filly as we have had around my time.
Blind Luck and Havre de Grace in the 2011 Delaware Handicap came to mind.
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  #40  
Old 11-04-2016, 10:06 PM
Conrad Conrad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackthroatedwind View Post
I don't agree. She was able to set a VERY moderate pace, partly with the help of her owner's usual trainer's horse riding shotgun, and further keeping Beholder out. Given the dynamics, Forever Unbridled probably ran a better race. It may be close....but it's close at worst:-)

The problem with a lot of Songbird's fans ( and I am not saying this is you ) is that they had completely unrealistic expectations going in. If you bet her at even money, you made a horrendous bet, as even under perfect circumstances ( slow pace, Stellar Wind not showing up, and Beholder getting pushed wide ) she lost. Sure it was close. Sure she ran well. No sane person criticized Songbird going in, they simply said she was a bad bet at a short price. Isn't that exactly what proved the case?

Regardless, it was a thrilling race. Hopefully everyone enjoyed it. I sure as hell did. Maybe some of us even learned something from it. What could be better than all that?
Because no one dared go with her, just as I suspected.
The problem with all the Songbird detractors is that they apparently don't study pace, where she had a huge advantage. What was Smith supposed to do when clear by 2-3 lengths down the backside? Push the button?
The pace was slow because she made all the pace and no one wanted anything to do with her up there.

So Larry Jones sent Chatterbox in there just to "ride shotgun" and make things tougher for Beholder? Is that what you're REALLY suggesting Andy?
lolol
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