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#21
12-26-2008, 10:56 PM
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Harold Baines
†Jay Bell Bert Blyleven †David Cone Andre Dawson †Ron Gant †Mark Grace †Rickey Henderson Tommy John Don Mattingly Mark McGwire Jack Morris Dale Murphy †Jesse Orosco Dave Parker †Dan Plesac Tim Raines Jim Rice Lee Smith Alan Trammell †Greg Vaughn †Mo Vaughn †Matt Williams If Bert B. does not get in I swear I will fart. Real soon. I will fart. 
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#22
12-26-2008, 11:38 PM
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Blyleven
Raines Henderson Dawson Moris
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#23
12-27-2008, 10:42 AM
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#25
12-27-2008, 11:45 AM
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Bert Blyleven
Andre Dawson †Rickey Henderson Mark McGwire Lee Smith
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#26
12-27-2008, 12:35 PM
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Harold Baines - He was a good hitter for a long time but never had a group of breakout seasons that defines a great player. In a 20 year career he only topped 100 rbi's 1 time, never hit 30 HR's in a season, only once hit more than 30 2b's, never scored 100 runs and only one time was in the top ten in MVP voting and he was 9th that year. Also never achived career milestones like 3000 hits or 400 Hr's. Hard to make a real case for him.
†Jay Bell- Underrated player but not nearly HoF caliber Bert Blyleven He is the perfect example of a player that played for a lot of average to poor teams for the majority of his career which unduly influenced his W/L record. His career 3.31 era is outstanding especially he pitched his 2 worst years at age 40 and 41 which added 260 pretty ordinary innings to his total. He won 287 games but if the stats are normalized to standard 715 run season (baseball-reference) his win/loss totals out to 325-227 showing explicitly how poor his teams were. Not to mention that he pitched in an era where he had to finish games as he pitched 242 complete games. He his K to BB ratio was 3-1 which is outstanding and he was in the top 10 in era 10 times, top 10 in wins 6 times, top 10 in k's 15 times, top 10 in CG 12 times, top 10 in shutouts 10 times, not to mention a 4-1 with a 2.87 postseason record where he won 2 rings. He belongs.
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#27
12-27-2008, 01:35 PM
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#28
12-27-2008, 01:36 PM
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...back when pitchers were pitchers!
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#29
12-27-2008, 07:17 PM
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Two lists.
Based on how I would set up my own personal hall of fame: Bert Blyleven †Rickey Henderson Don Mattingly Jim Rice Based on who's already in there: Bert Blyleven Andre Dawson †Rickey Henderson Tommy John Don Mattingly Mark McGwire Jack Morris Dale Murphy †Jesse Orosco Dave Parker Tim Raines Jim Rice Lee Smith
__________________
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#30
12-28-2008, 11:05 AM
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David Cone- at first glance you think that David Cone simply doesnt have the career numbers to make the hall of fame. When you look at his career though he was an outstanding pitcher with some credentials. He won 20 games twice, won a Cy Young, 5 times was in the top 5 in Cy Young voting, pitched a perfect game, was a good playoff pitcher and was generally considered a top pitcher of his time. However like many of his peers like Orel Hershiser and Doc Gooden they just dont measure up to the other starting pitchers in the Hall of Fame. The only close measure is Dazzy Vance who amazingly enough didn't start pitching full time until he was 31 years old. Though he as a very good pitcher Cone simply didn't do enough compared to the standard set by other Hall of Fame pitchers.
Andre Dawson- I am amazed at the amount of people that support Jim Rice yet dont support Dawson. Dawson was clearly not only the better player (by a large margin) he had a better career. Dawson was one of the few players in baseball history to be able to transform his game as he aged from one that depended on speed to one that stressed power as his legs gave way. He won a rookie of the year award, won a MVP award, was 2nd in the voting two other times, won 8 gold gloves, stole over 300 bases, won 4 silver slugger awards, hit 438 HR's, 500 2b's , almost 100 3bs (98), had 2774 hits, 1373 runs, 1591 rbis's, and his numbers match up very nicely with hall of Famers, Billy Williams, Al Kaline, Tony Perez, Dave Winfield and Ernie Banks. Another penalized by spending his best years in Montreal. In my mind he belongs. Ron Gant- Not Hall of Fame material Mark Grace- Nice career, no Hall of fame for him Rickey Henderson- Not only the greatest leadoff hitter in modern baseball history, there is no one even close. Should be unanimous but some moron will leave him off. Tommy John- Though John has similar numbers to Blyleven he has a couple of advantages that should be counted against him in that comaprison. Number one he started pitching in the mid 60's where the advantages for pitchers were many. He also played for mostly winning teams which led to a better record than his other stats indicate. He was a really good pitcher in the mid 70' to 1980 but was pretty ordinary the rest of his career. Not for me.
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#31
12-28-2008, 11:28 AM
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Don Mattingly- By all accounts a classy guy. No doubt he was great player before his back injury. But 6 top seasons does not make for a hall of fame career. From 1984 to 1989 he was one of the best players in baseball but that simply isnt enough as his peak was not historic by any measure and his career numbers are not even close. Sorry sentiment aside he didnt have a hall of fame career.
Mark McGwire- since we live in America under a presumption of innocence I only took into consideration McGwires career and not the innuendo of steroid usage. He made the all star team in 12 of his thirteen full seasons. He hit 583 HR's. The numbers are there but I think most will hold the era against him.
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#33
12-28-2008, 01:32 PM
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Cannon bringing out the sexy Latin words now(innuendo.)
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#34
12-28-2008, 04:31 PM
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Jack Morris- A tough one. He was generally considered the best pitcher of the 80's. He won 20 games three times, was 7 times in the top 5 voting for the Cy Young, 5 times received MVP votes, was a tremendous pst season pitcher who twice was the MVP of the World series, twice led the league in wins, made 5 all star teams starting three games, pitched a no hitter and game 7 of the 1991 world Series remains one of the all time great clutch pitching displays. I think with his credentials and 254 wins he should be in.
Dale Murphy- He is very similar to Mattingly as he had a great 6 year run but the start and end of his career just wasnt that good. No for him. Jesse Orosco- No chance Dave Parker- a personal fav of mine he played at a high level for a long time but probably didn't do enough. Dan Plesac- I cant think of one thing Dan Plesac ever did to be considered
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#35
12-28-2008, 05:16 PM
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Tim Raines- Raines was a better player than Lou Brock but Brock hit one of those magic numbers, 3000 hits. Raines may have had 400 less hits than Brock but had close to 600 more walks and was a much better base stealer as he was successful on 808 while getting caught 146 versus Brock's 938 and 307. He had a long run of top years and while he wasnt the best leadoff/speed player with Henderson in the league he was far superior to the rest. He also matches up favorably with other players of his type that are in the Hall namely Fred Clarke and Max Carey. He should be in.
Jim Rice- Rice was always a good hitter, but was he good enough? He seems like a Hall of famer and his career almost looks good enough but for a pwer hitter he doesnt rank very high on the lifetime power lists. He has less hits, HR's, runs, and rbi's than Dawson. He never hit any of the important milestone numbers and was an extremely one dimensional player as he was a poor fielder and pretty slow. You have to draw a line somewhere and I draw the line at Rice. Lee Smith- Hard to judge closers Alan Trammell- Overshadowed by Ripken and Ozzie Smith, he was a solid player who may have been inducted if he had played in the 40's or 50's. Greg Vaughn- Why? Mo Vaughn- Maybe the fat dude HoF Matt Williams- No
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#36
12-29-2008, 11:09 AM
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[quote=Cannon Shell]Tim Raines- Raines may have had 400 less hits than Brock..............Raines had 808 stolen bases.... Brock had 938 ....
Seems like the guy mainly just played forever. I don't see it. I doubt others will, and I bet he doesn't get in. Why do you want to give so much credit to somebody with a tiny strike zone (that resulted in getting a lot of walks?) Of course it's gunna be easy for Raines to get walks. It's pretty easy for Furcal, too. If you want a mediocre player to get in, then save your mediocre vote for when Biggio comes up.
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#37
12-29-2008, 12:58 PM
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[quote=SCUDSBROTHER]
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#38
12-29-2008, 02:21 PM
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[quote=Cannon Shell]
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#39
12-29-2008, 03:43 PM
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Bert Blyleven -- long overdue, wicked curveball, & 3,701 strikeouts!
†Rickey Henderson -- over-the-top ego, but ultimate base thief... Lee Arthur Smith from Castor, Louisiana, where the best watermelons on Planet Earth grow!
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@wire2wirewin Turf Economist since 1974
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#40
12-29-2008, 04:20 PM
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[quote=SCUDSBROTHER]
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Linear Mode
