Tom Chuckas on Preakness/TC Spacing

[Cannon Shell]

There is no reason to believe that added time would create more Triple Crown winners. As a matter of fact a TC winner wont have any lasting impact on racing anyway.

Chuckas is looking out for Pimlico which is what he is supposed to do but changing the dates wont help the TC and might very well do the opposite.

Now the best argument for changing the TC dates would be if the tracks got together and created a TC of sorts for the other divisions/undercard races as well which with a little creativity and common sense could be continued throughout the rest of the summer and fall leading up to the Breeders Cup.

Just changing the TC and randomly hoping it works is a far more likely scenario though

[jms62]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There is no reason to believe that added time would create more Triple Crown winners. As a matter of fact a TC winner wont have any lasting impact on racing anyway.

Chuckas is looking out for Pimlico which is what he is supposed to do but changing the dates wont help the TC and might very well do the opposite.

Now the best argument for changing the TC dates would be if the tracks got together and created a TC of sorts for the other divisions/undercard races as well which with a little creativity and common sense could be continued throughout the rest of the summer and fall leading up to the Breeders Cup.

Just changing the TC and randomly hoping it works is a far more likely scenario though

Don't understand why they don't have a Triple Crown for Fillies running the Friday before the Triple Crown Race. I'm sure that NBCSN can market that...

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by jms62

Don't understand why they don't have a Triple Crown for Fillies running the Friday before the Triple Crown Race. I'm sure that NBCSN can market that...

NY used to have their own TC for fillies the Acorn, Mother Goose and Coaching Club all which were far bigger races than the Black Eyed Susan.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There is no reason to believe that added time would create more Triple Crown winners. As a matter of fact a TC winner wont have any lasting impact on racing anyway.

Chuckas is looking out for Pimlico which is what he is supposed to do but changing the dates wont help the TC and might very well do the opposite.

Now the best argument for changing the TC dates would be if the tracks got together and created a TC of sorts for the other divisions/undercard races as well which with a little creativity and common sense could be continued throughout the rest of the summer and fall leading up to the Breeders Cup.

Just changing the TC and randomly hoping it works is a far more likely scenario though

You don't think the current spacing of those races is one of the things that makes it so difficult to win the TC?

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

You don't think the current spacing of those races is one of the things that makes it so difficult to win the TC?

no.

was it the current spacing that cost everyone for 25 years between cy and secretariat?

was it spacing that cost real quiet, smarty, spectacular bid, sunday silence for starters?

you could put them three months apart, doesn't mean more horses would win it.
chuckas needs to focus on his tracks product, instead of an 'easy' fix for what ails him.
he doesn't want a tc winner, he wants more receipts this weekend.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Danzig

no.

was it the current spacing that cost everyone for 25 years between cy and secretariat?

was it spacing that cost real quiet, smarty, spectacular bid, sunday silence for starters?

you could put them three months apart, doesn't mean more horses would win it.
chuckas needs to focus on his tracks product, instead of an 'easy' fix for what ails him.
he doesn't want a tc winner, he wants more receipts this weekend.

You are being a little harsh on Tommy boy. From HIS vantage point, yeah the 2 week turn around hurts HIS product, especially the undercard races. However the rest of us are looking at the timing from a different vantage point and our jobs arent being impacted

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You are being a little harsh on Tommy boy. From HIS vantage point, yeah the 2 week turn around hurts HIS product, especially the undercard races. However the rest of us are looking at the timing from a different vantage point and our jobs arent being impacted

I don't think I am being harsh. If you want business you offer a good product. And if it weren't for the tc tradition he wouldn't draw anyone.

[Dunbar]

Does anyone know when the last change was made in either the spacing or the length of the races? I tried to track it down, but for once Google failed me.

Good thread, btw. I particularly liked Indian Charlie's rundown of the Belmont 'fails'. And I totally agree with Cannon's "As a matter of fact a TC winner wont have any lasting impact on racing anyway."

My own opinion on whether the spacing should be changed is obvious from my avatar.

--Dunbar

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Cardus

Here is the last bit that I have: in 1957, the Belmont was 28 days after the Preakness (which was two weeks after the Derby, which didn't stop Bold Ruler from running in a Pimlico allowance race five days before the Preakness), so maybe 1958 was the first year of the current spacing.

Without looking back at the winners before Whirlaway, I'd say that Secretariat was the first Triple Crown winner to run on the current schedule.

With all of this historical reporting, I am starting to feel like DrugS.

Enjoy the Preakness.

(DRF's "Champions" is a great instant tool for a question like Dunbar's.)

Thanks for doing the research! I would have guessed that the current spacing was in place for Citation and Whirlaway. Did either of them have a race in between the Preakness and the Belmont?

--Dunbar

[Aly-Sheba]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

You are being a little harsh on Tommy boy. From HIS vantage point, yeah the 2 week turn around hurts HIS product, especially the undercard races. However the rest of us are looking at the timing from a different vantage point and our jobs arent being impacted

Anyone working for Stronrach is always looking over their shoulder. :-)

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

no.

was it the current spacing that cost everyone for 25 years between cy and secretariat?

was it spacing that cost real quiet, smarty, spectacular bid, sunday silence for starters?

you could put them three months apart, doesn't mean more horses would win it.
chuckas needs to focus on his tracks product, instead of an 'easy' fix for what ails him.
he doesn't want a tc winner, he wants more receipts this weekend.

I never claimed that the spacing was the only thing that makes it so tough to win the TC. I do believe it is one of the toughest things but not the only thing. Most trainers would agree with that. If you asked guys like Pletcher and Baffert, I guarantee you that they would tell you that the spacing is one of the most challenging things and that it makes it all that much tougher to win all three. It's not rocket science to know that it's asking a lot of a 3 year old (or even an older horse) to run 3 times in 5 weeks, including a 1 1/2 mile race.

[Danzig]

Most would? Show me.

If most wanted it changed,it would. Look at poly going away for example. And of course its tough, else anyone could do it.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Danzig

Most would? Show me.

If most wanted it changed,it would. Look at poly going away for example. And of course its tough, else anyone could do it.

I couldn't tell you whether most want it changed or not. That wasn't what I said. I said that most trainers would tell you that the spacing is one of the most challenging things about the TC.

[Danzig]

The spacing is known, it is no mystery. I would think the challenges are mainly things you cannot control.
Weather, pace, post, health/well being of the horse, managing him to bring him into the three races in peak form, racing luck, the ride, temperament, etc.
The only thing you know for sure is when the races are.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

You don't think the current spacing of those races is one of the things that makes it so difficult to win the TC?

The spacing makes the Preakness easier to win for the Derby winner and the 1 1/2 distance is an x factor regardless of time between races. Put it this way the leading trainer in the country who has by far the best young stock year after year doesnt even bother trying to win the preakness now.

[Port Conway Lane]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

The spacing makes the Preakness easier to win for the Derby winner and the 1 1/2 distance is an x factor regardless of time between races. Put it this way the leading trainer in the country who has by far the best young stock year after year doesnt even bother trying to win the preakness now.

Exactly, the derby winner is in peak form and extra time between the derby and preakness would open the door for late developers to knock them off.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

There is no reason to believe that added time would create more Triple Crown winners. As a matter of fact a TC winner wont have any lasting impact on racing anyway.

Chuckas is looking out for Pimlico which is what he is supposed to do but changing the dates wont help the TC and might very well do the opposite.

Now the best argument for changing the TC dates would be if the tracks got together and created a TC of sorts for the other divisions/undercard races as well which with a little creativity and common sense could be continued throughout the rest of the summer and fall leading up to the Breeders Cup.

Just changing the TC and randomly hoping it works is a far more likely scenario though