I need to listen to ATR more often

[freddymo]

Let me get this right, Davidowitz compared Zenyatta running down St Trinians to Personal Ensign catching Winning Colors? Wow that's special.
I guess he has a huge opinion of St Trinian because Winning Colors was terriffic and she didnt have to be undefeated for people to understand her place in history.

As for PE's staying in NY most of career, who did she duck out west?

[Danzig]

and it's interesting the comparison to personal ensign. she didn't get HOY either....


and i don't recall mr. phipps and shug bitching about it.


you want to be the best? beat the best. run a top campaign. don't stay in your backyard and say you're king of the hill. that's what is required to be an all-timer.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Danzig

and it's interesting the comparison to personal ensign. she didn't get HOY either....


and i don't recall mr. phipps and shug bitching about it.


you want to be the best? beat the best. run a top campaign. don't stay in your backyard and say you're king of the hill. that's what is required to be an all-timer.

Personal Ensign wasn't, as far as I know, even considered for the BC Classic. (I certainly don't fault anyone for THAT decision--running against Alysheba would have been daunting, to say the least.) BUT, Zenyatta's camp has set the BC Classic as their year-end goal regardless of who else is heading there. Likewise, they announced the Apple Blossom date well ahead of time REGARDLESS of who else was going to show up there.

Despite that, there is all this relentless whining about the schedule her connections have chosen for her. She's already won Grade I's on both synthetic and dirt, and we somehow just get more whining. What a bunch of cup-half-empty nonsense!

We have a 6-year-old mare that in the hands of 95% of owner/trainer would have been retired (and stayed retired) after being the first mare to win the BC Classic. Instead of retirement, we have the unexpected pleasure of watching this excellent mare run another half dozen times, including two trips east. Despite all of this that we could and should be absolutely savoring, we get a surprising number of otherwise sane people who jump at any opportunity to nitpick Zenyatta's accomplishments.

--Dunbar

[ateamstupid]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Personal Ensign wasn't, as far as I know, even considered for the BC Classic. (I certainly don't fault anyone for THAT decision--running against Alysheba would have been daunting, to say the least.) BUT, Zenyatta's camp has set the BC Classic as their year-end goal regardless of who else is heading there. Likewise, they announced the Apple Blossom date well ahead of time REGARDLESS of who else was going to show up there.

Despite that, there is all this relentless whining about the schedule her connections have chosen for her. She's already won Grade I's on both synthetic and dirt, and we somehow just get more whining. What a bunch of cup-half-empty nonsense!

We have a 6-year-old mare that in the hands of 95% of owner/trainer would have been retired (and stayed retired) after being the first mare to win the BC Classic. Instead of retirement, we have the unexpected pleasure of watching this excellent mare run another half dozen times, including two trips east. Despite all of this that we could and should be absolutely savoring, we get a surprising number of otherwise sane people who jump at any opportunity to nitpick Zenyatta's accomplishments.

--Dunbar

Right, we should all be falling all over ourselves thanking the Mosses for bringing her back to beat Taptam and St Trinians. The racing world would certainly collapse into dust were we not given that privilege.

It's nice that she's still running and her stretch runs are exciting in themselves, but I'm sorry, her campaign is boring and it doesn't nearly live up to the hyperbole we're smothered with by her connections and fans.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Right, we should all be falling all over ourselves thanking the Mosses for bringing her back to beat Taptam and St Trinians. The racing world would certainly collapse into dust were we not given that privilege.

It's nice that she's still running and her stretch runs are exciting in themselves, but I'm sorry, her campaign is boring and it doesn't nearly live up to the hyperbole we're smothered with by her connections and fans.

No, we shouldn't be thanking them for bringing her back to face Taptam. We should be thanking them for bringing her back this year to take on Rachel (which they tried to do). And we should thank them for bringing her back this year to defend her title in the BC Classic.

So thank her for two races.

And you don't see anything wrong with that?

How about we just shut the sport down completely? It's obvious cowardice is rewarded and praised.

[TouchOfGrey]

Oh dear.

Of all the times for Steve to be off the satellite airwaves! Good for him for saying what many of us are thinking.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

So thank her for two races.

And you don't see anything wrong with that?

How about we just shut the sport down completely? It's obvious cowardice is rewarded and praised.

So even though they wanted to take on Rachel, they are cowards? Even though they want to run against the best colts in the country, they are cowards? They are cowards if they don't try to choose a really tough race every time?

Is it like that in boxing to? Should a boxer try to look for the toughest fight he can find every time? If he doesn't, is he a coward? That is absurd and you know it. You point for a big fight or a big race, but you don't want to have really tough ones all the way there. You want some of the preps to be relatively easy. There is nothing wrong with that.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

So thank her for two races.

And you don't see anything wrong with that?

How about we just shut the sport down completely? It's obvious cowardice is rewarded and praised.

I agree that cowardice is rewarded and praised. But what's even more rewarded and praised is retiring good horses and taking them out of the game. "It's just good business". "We want to do the best for the horse". Clap clap clap.

Shame on the Mosses for bringing Zenyatta back and only racing twice in the East. And the nerve they have of announcing her schedule far enough in advance that any filly/mare in the country could meet her if desired by the connections.

Shame, too, on Zenyatta for excelling on two surfaces, while "really" good horses can apparently only excel on one, dirt.

Shame on the Mosses for aiming so low as to win a 2nd BC Classic.

--Dunbar

[Revidere]

Originally Posted by Coach Pants

How about we just shut the sport down completely?

Isn't the sport doing a fine enough job of its own on that front?

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by ateamstupid

Right, we should all be falling all over ourselves thanking the Mosses for bringing her back to beat Taptam and St Trinians. The racing world would certainly collapse into dust were we not given that privilege.

It's nice that she's still running and her stretch runs are exciting in themselves, but I'm sorry, her campaign is boring and it doesn't nearly live up to the hyperbole we're smothered with by her connections and fans.

No, no, you are the correct one, Ateam. We should all continue to rant on about the cowardice of the Mosses when any typical owners would have just retired their Breeders Cup Classic champ. What in the world are the Mosses thinking? Bringing back a champ as a 6-yr-old and running her just twice in the East. Pointing their mare to the Breeder's Cup Classic, as if that's a tough race or anything! It's ridiculous, you're right. We should all be getting excited about next year's Kentucky Derby, or something, instead.

Look, would I rather see her facing males before the BC Classic? Sure. But in an age when pretty much every Grade I winner is a candidate for "He/She's done enough" and whisked off to the breeding shed, I'm EXTREMELY glad that they brought Zenyatta back to race again.

--Dunbar

[slotdirt]

I say, once again, that you guys are absolutely insane if you think Zenyatta is crossing the Mississippi again this year. Insane.

Originally Posted by Dunbar

No, no, you are the correct one, Ateam. We should all continue to rant on about the cowardice of the Mosses when any typical owners would have just retired their Breeders Cup Classic champ. What in the world are the Mosses thinking? Bringing back a champ as a 6-yr-old and running her just twice in the East. Pointing their mare to the Breeder's Cup Classic, as if that's a tough race or anything! It's ridiculous, you're right. We should all be getting excited about next year's Kentucky Derby, or something, instead.



--Dunbar

They brought her back for selfish reasons, not for the fans. If they actually cared about the sport then they would run her against the best older males in the East on dirt. They don't want that.

They want Best in Show awards. If all they care about is awards then Moss should leave the game and invest in Broadway plays. Lord knows he would fit right in with those sissies.

We'll see if they cross the Rockies for the BC

[Indian Charlie]

Best Pal would have beaten Zenyatta as well.

Steve Zenyattawitz is hopeless!

[NTamm1215]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Look, would I rather see her facing males before the BC Classic? Sure. But in an age when pretty much every Grade I winner is a candidate for "He/She's done enough" and whisked off to the breeding shed, I'm EXTREMELY glad that they brought Zenyatta back to race again.

--Dunbar

You can't compare bringing back a mare to race to a colt being sent to the shed, it's just not realistic whatsoever. Was it good for the game for them to bring her back? Of course, but can't we get her to try at least an interesting race here and there prior to the BC? Hol Gold Cup? Pacific Classic? For God sake, maybe even the Goodwood?

NT

[slotdirt]

Folks who think she was unretired for anything other than a 2010 victory parade and some sort of potential lifetime achievement Eclipse award are delusional.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Personal Ensign wasn't, as far as I know, even considered for the BC Classic. (I certainly don't fault anyone for THAT decision--running against Alysheba would have been daunting, to say the least.) BUT, Zenyatta's camp has set the BC Classic as their year-end goal regardless of who else is heading there. Likewise, they announced the Apple Blossom date well ahead of time REGARDLESS of who else was going to show up there.

Despite that, there is all this relentless whining about the schedule her connections have chosen for her. She's already won Grade I's on both synthetic and dirt, and we somehow just get more whining. What a bunch of cup-half-empty nonsense!

We have a 6-year-old mare that in the hands of 95% of owner/trainer would have been retired (and stayed retired) after being the first mare to win the BC Classic. Instead of retirement, we have the unexpected pleasure of watching this excellent mare run another half dozen times, including two trips east. Despite all of this that we could and should be absolutely savoring, we get a surprising number of otherwise sane people who jump at any opportunity to nitpick Zenyatta's accomplishments.

--Dunbar

i don't think too many are nitpicking...until someone says she's the best ever, or when someone says she should be/should have been horse of the year. that's the type of stuff that gets her accomplishments and schedule scrutinized, and deservedly so.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by Danzig

i don't think too many are nitpicking...until someone says she's the best ever, or when someone says she should be/should have been horse of the year. that's the type of stuff that gets her accomplishments and schedule scrutinized, and deservedly so.

If that were true, I'd completely agree with you, Danzig. If it's just an argument about whether she's THE all-time best mare, I'll be the first to look at the choice of races, the level of competition. (As an aside that Cannon Shell might appreciate, I never forgave Floyd Patterson for the way he ducked Liston and others for so many years.)

But people here are denying that Zenyatta is even one of the best fillies/mares we've seen in the last 30 years. That is patently ridiculous, IMO.

So, rather than celebrating the fact that two of the best fillies of our time have mangaged to stay healthy and out of the breeding shed, we have countless posts tearing down one or the other.

--Dunbar

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

If that were true, I'd completely agree with you, Danzig. If it's just an argument about whether she's THE all-time best mare, I'll be the first to look at the choice of races, the level of competition. (As an aside that Cannon Shell might appreciate, I never forgave Floyd Patterson for the way he ducked Liston and others for so many years.)

But people here are denying that Zenyatta is even one of the best fillies/mares we've seen in the last 30 years. That is patently ridiculous, IMO.

So, rather than celebrating the fact that two of the best fillies of our time have mangaged to stay healthy and out of the breeding shed, we have countless posts tearing down one or the other.

--Dunbar

I dont see anyone denying that she is one of the best mares that we have seen. The fact is that thay have/had a chance to make the point that she arguably could be the best but would rather hang their hat on a meaningless win streak. It isnt a coincidence that this winning streak stuff came about recently. If Mr Frisky had been injured and retired after winning the SA Derby and 16 in a row would we have been proclaiming him one of the all time greats?

And when a dudes nickname is "Pretty boy" you have to assume that ducking is in his nature

[tiggerv]

Nobody knows how good Zenyatta really is because of how she has been protected by the Mosses/Sheriffs. She is impossible to judge and super fans and haters are going to continue to make ridiculous comparisons or unfairly trash her because of it. Fans and doubter should all be in agreement that it's time to see her really challenged and give us some perspective on her career.

The Mosses have their meaningless 17 in a row record so there is no reason to hold back anymore. If they want to keep her undefeated, then retire her now, because she nearly lost to a juiced up cripple last weekend on her home track. That would have done much more to tarnish her rep then a loss to Rachel or QR or even Blame on the dirt. She should have been in the Foster running against males on the BC track if they are really preparing for a BCC defense. This Vanity-Hirsch-Lady's Secret pupu platter every year is ridiculous.

Ship her and run the Whitney - Woodward - BCC and see how good she really is. QR is going to run all three and I believe Blame is pointed towards the Whitney. Since Rachel appears to be back in form, that windbag Jess Jackson should do the same thing. If the Mosses and Jess Jackson really want to do something for the sport instead of talking a big game, then getting the best horses and biggest names running against each other multiple times would do it.