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Old 01-30-2009, 11:32 AM
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cmorioles cmorioles is offline
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I don't know which trainers are good guys, and which are bad guys. I don't know who cheats and who doesn't. However, I can tell you which ones move horses up by double digit lengths on a pretty regular basis. My guess is that anyone doing this is probably cheating, good guy or bad guy, especially when they are taking over horses not previously trained by Arthur Wendell.
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Old 01-30-2009, 11:47 AM
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Kasept Kasept is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmorioles
I don't know which trainers are good guys, and which are bad guys. I don't know who cheats and who doesn't. However, I can tell you which ones move horses up by double digit lengths on a pretty regular basis. My guess is that anyone doing this is probably cheating, good guy or bad guy, especially when they are taking over horses not previously trained by Arthur Wendell.
Well put. I appreciate everyone approaching this topic thoughtfully and with real concern for what the industry does and plans to do to make things as fair and honest for everyone as possible. That's why Andy Beyer's earnestness on this topic has gravitas, and why he can say things that most others can't or won't. I'm as eager for the level playing field as anyone and hope when it comes that we're surprised how honest the vast majority of players in the training arena are.
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Old 01-30-2009, 12:09 PM
Rudeboyelvis Rudeboyelvis is offline
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A testing regiment similar to what is used in Cycling (with just as stiff penalties) would go a long way in deterring a lot of this behavior.

A blood chemisty work up on all detained horses with baseline markers and established thresholds for all elements that impact performance (eg. red blood cell count, etc).

I'm not a chemist or a vet, and do not even know if this would translate to horses, but they do this in Cycling- For instance if their red blood cell count is elevated over the threshold, they are guilty - period. It doesn't matter what they "used" to get there as there obviously not test for it anyway.

We do similar tests for Total CO2 (milkshaking) by testing for the gas volume in solution in the blood - not the level of bicarbonate soda.
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Old 01-30-2009, 12:13 PM
sumitas sumitas is offline
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And NJ's policy of testing anytime, anywhere, unannounced seems well founded .
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Old 01-30-2009, 12:20 PM
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justindew justindew is offline
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Personally, I have no idea who cheats and who doesn't. But one opinion I DO have is that we, the bettors, are the only ones who will bring about change. Based on my somewhat-limited experience with racetrack management, I feel like no one in this business does anything radical unless they know for a fact that the move won't cost them their jobs (i.e. result in a loss in revenue in the short term). Why would we expect the tracks come down on drug use if we keep betting? Coming down on drug use costs money and might piss off trainers, who the tracks can't afford to piss off any more than absolutely necessary.

If bettors say "enough is enough, we're playing poker," then will tracks MIGHT have no choice but to make some meaningful changes......assuming of course that their first step, creating some lame ass poker-related wager like "The All-In" or "The Full House", fails.
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Old 01-30-2009, 06:38 PM
Danzig Danzig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudeboyelvis
A testing regiment similar to what is used in Cycling (with just as stiff penalties) would go a long way in deterring a lot of this behavior.

A blood chemisty work up on all detained horses with baseline markers and established thresholds for all elements that impact performance (eg. red blood cell count, etc).

I'm not a chemist or a vet, and do not even know if this would translate to horses, but they do this in Cycling- For instance if their red blood cell count is elevated over the threshold, they are guilty - period. It doesn't matter what they "used" to get there as there obviously not test for it anyway.

We do similar tests for Total CO2 (milkshaking) by testing for the gas volume in solution in the blood - not the level of bicarbonate soda.

but like beyer said, there needs to be some real teeth involved in whatever 'punishment' is handed out to these trainers when they get caught with a positive.
hell, many trainers call a suspension a much needed vacation. that's a hell of a mindset.
but hey....a small fine, a slap on the wrist, get nominated for an eclipse...or even win one-like i heard on the show, what reason is there not to cheat? it's so easy, and rewarding. it's obscene.
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