LM and Preachin' in the Classic

[Slewbopper]

Originally Posted by somerfrost

According to his connections, he doesn't like being inside horses...Cory put him there for a specific reason but I suspect Lava Man wasn't happy! The fact that it didn't effect his race is very good news for them...he is very professional!

Thanks for a good response Somer...The rest of you can go to hell. We have a horse that runs his eyeballs out everytime and all a lot of you want to do is knock him. He is a gelding that has the opportunity to run in G1 million dollar races at home. What would you do? Go east to run in the 400K Suburban instead of the HGC?

[Danzig]

funny isn't it that lava man can win at different tracks on different surfaces, yet he takes a hell of a lot more heat than silver train, who only wins at belmont!!

oh, but wait...belmont is in the east. i guess that makes ALL the difference.

I guess after he ran out of the detention barn last year and stopped like a wounded quail we all got pretty suspicious. Silver Train runs out of the detention barn Zieg and does quite well, care to comment on that? I think you are confusing two issues here.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I guess after he ran out of the detention barn last year and stopped like a wounded quail we all got pretty suspicious. Silver Train runs out of the detention barn Zieg and does quite well, care to comment on that? I think you are confusing two issues here.

For the Pacific Classic there is even more security than in New York. There is a guard stationed at every horse's stall beginning the day before the race. In New York, the horses are guarded for only about 6 hours. For the Pacific Classic, they are being guarded for practically 24 hours.

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

For the Pacific Classic there is even more security than in New York. There is a guard stationed at every horse's stall beginning the day before the race. In New York, the horses are guarded for only about 6 hours. For the Pacific Classic, they are being guarded for practically 24 hours.

Richi, the receiving barn is a tough place for a horse to run out of for the first time, especially a horse who isn't a good shipper. I don't think O Neill would monkey around in a million dollar race at any track, like Dutrow hes received too much scrutiny.
But race day Bute is definitely something aids many horses. Cali has it, Ny doesnt. The analogy of taking aspirin the day before a headache instead of the day of was pretty clever.

[Rupert Pupkin]

Originally Posted by oracle80

Richi, the receiving barn is a tough place for a horse to run out of for the first time, especially a horse who isn't a good shipper. I don't think O Neill would monkey around in a million dollar race at any track, like Dutrow hes received too much scrutiny.
But race day Bute is definitely something aids many horses. Cali has it, Ny doesnt. The analogy of taking aspirin the day before a headache instead of the day of was pretty clever.

In California, we can't give bute on race day. We have the same rule as New York.

[Cajungator26]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

In California, we can't give bute on race day. We have the same rule as New York.

Not to mention that bute doesn't exit the system as quickly as aspirin does.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin

In California, we can't give bute on race day. We have the same rule as New York.

Then why the heck is there a big giant B for Bute next to the weight in every California race on his record? Why would they make that distinction if the rules were the same?

http://www.drf.com/row/pps/lavaman.pdf

It is hard to get past the fact that the three races he was beaten by the most lengths in his entire career were also the three races he didn't have Bute.

[Dunbar]

Originally Posted by oracle80

But race day Bute is definitely something aids many horses. Cali has it, Ny doesnt. The analogy of taking aspirin the day before a headache instead of the day of was pretty clever.

Originally Posted by SniperSB23

More like if he'd gone six furlongs without Bute and the aches and pains started up just like the three other races he's ran without it and folded up after six furlongs.

Do either of you guys ever admit you were plain wrong?! Yeah, the "aspirin the day before" analogy was "pretty clever". Too bad it had nothing to do with reality.

Corrected by both Cajungator and Rupert, but not a word from either of you about your mis-speaks.

--Dunbar

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Do either of you guys ever admit you were plain wrong?! Yeah, the "aspirin the day before" analogy was "pretty clever". Too bad it had nothing to do with reality.

Corrected by both Cajungator and Rupert, but not a word from either of you about your mis-speaks.

--Dunbar

I'll have to look into the limits some more and maybe even try calling the racing office to get the full scoop before I am going to claim I mis-spoke. The end result is the PPs show him on Bute in California and off everywhere else so until I get a reasoning for that difference I am not convinced that there is no difference. I thanked Rupert for the info he gave me and I will look further into the issue. This forum would be flooded with additional posts if everyone added an extra post for everytime they mis-spoke.

So then what other explanation is there for him being able to run well at all three California tracks but his three worst defeats are in the three times he left California? I don't believe that the quality of horses he faced outside of California were that much better than the quality of horses in those three races to explain the difference. I don't see the issue being him only liking the rock hard surfaces in California because he has also run so well on the turf. And I am absolutely positive that Lava Man can't recognize where the state boundary of California is and refuses to run hard once he is out of there. So the only remaining theories are that there are different drug standards in California, that he hates shipping, or sheer coincidence. I think the first and second may blend together a bit. O'Neill may know every trick of the trade to beat the system in California but may not know the same tricks while on the road.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by Dunbar

Do either of you guys ever admit you were plain wrong?! Yeah, the "aspirin the day before" analogy was "pretty clever". Too bad it had nothing to do with reality.

Corrected by both Cajungator and Rupert, but not a word from either of you about your mis-speaks.

--Dunbar

Well to dwell on the aspirin analogy further, if you took an aspirin say this afternoon for a headache it would show up tomorrow in a blood test, however, would the effect of that aspirin be felt the next day? The answer is no, trust me, I have Bute in 3 forms at home, tablet, paste, and injectable. I have had to administer it for various illness and injuries, and even in the most painfull of incidences requiring the largest dose, the efficiency is considerably diminished after 8 to 12 hours. It's no big deal having Bute the day before a race, or ever for that matter, we're not talking snail venom here.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find a horse owner of any breed who doesn't have Bute in their tack rooms. It's like having Advil in our medicine cabinets.
I don't get why they even make a big deal over it, Lasix is FAR worse for a horse.

[LARHAGE]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I guess after he ran out of the detention barn last year and stopped like a wounded quail we all got pretty suspicious. Silver Train runs out of the detention barn Zieg and does quite well, care to comment on that? I think you are confusing two issues here.

He ran and won out of the detention barn at Hollywood Park in the Gold Cup, and unlike Flower Alley, when things don't go right he still wins, it's called heart.

[Danzig]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I guess after he ran out of the detention barn last year and stopped like a wounded quail we all got pretty suspicious. Silver Train runs out of the detention barn Zieg and does quite well, care to comment on that? I think you are confusing two issues here.

i don't think i'm confusing anything at all.

by the same token, st liam shipped west and didn't do anything. is that suspicious? or is that the track? or the weather? but lava man, well now that's another story.....

and i think it reeks that lava man, atop the ntra poll btw, gets grief for last years bad races, while flower alley runs twice all year, and yet he gets a pass and no bad press. silver train, the defending bc sprint champ, won't be there to try to repeat, as everyone knows he only likes belmont. connections aren't even willing to try...legit complaints, yet nothing is said...meanwhile, a horse runs at races (6--who else in the top ten has so many starts??) up and down the west coast, and nothing but knocks--for LAST YEAR! no props for what's been accomplished this year, which is quite a bit, just bs about last years lows.

i have to admit, i'm as guilty as anyone about selling westies short. but this is ridiculous.

[Sightseek]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

i don't think i'm confusing anything at all.

by the same token, st liam shipped west and didn't do anything. is that suspicious? or is that the track? or the weather?

Can't blame the horse for not wanting to run on concrete. Lava Man can't ship out of CALIFORNIA, Saint Liam ran in FL, KY and NY and did splendid, I think there is a difference there.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Sightseek

Can't blame the horse for not wanting to run on concrete. Lava Man can't ship out of CALIFORNIA, Saint Liam ran in FL, KY and NY and did splendid, I think there is a difference there.

Not to mention he only lost by 4 lengths in California, Lava Man has lost all three times he was out of California by at least 14.5 lengths each time.

Saint Liam also had some pretty decent races in Louisiana, Arkansas, and Iowa.

[2Hot4TV]

Originally Posted by oracle80

I guess after he ran out of the detention barn last year and stopped like a wounded quail we all got pretty suspicious. Silver Train runs out of the detention barn Zieg and does quite well, care to comment on that? I think you are confusing two issues here.

Lava Man ran his last two races out of the detention Barn.

[SniperSB23]

Originally Posted by Danzig188

funny isn't it that lava man can win at different tracks on different surfaces, yet he takes a hell of a lot more heat than silver train, who only wins at belmont!!

oh, but wait...belmont is in the east. i guess that makes ALL the difference.

If people were talking about Silver Train for HOY then it would be very different. We expect our HOY to be able to run on a variety of tracks in a variety of jurisdictions. There are regularly divisional champs that only run at a few different tracks.