Oh my gosh

Linny · #1 03-15-2008, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by justindew

So, you equate simply being on the lead with "ideal"? That reminds me of what people used to say about Azeri. "She needs things her own way." Total nonsense. She ran the opening 3/4 in the 2002 BC Distaff in under 1:10, and romped. But she DID need to be on the lead, most of the time. In fact, she NEVER lost a two-turn race when she was sent to the front. Go back and look at the fractions that War Pass has set in his previous races. He has simply outrun everyone from start to finish. "Ideal" would be alone and slow. War Pass doesn't need slow, and may not need alone.

Some horses need the lead to win, some don't. Many speed horses are perceived as "need to lead" types until proven otherwise. It may not be 100% accurate, but it may be the way to bet. Azeri proved that she didn't need the lead to win but day in and day out horses who don't get the lead sulk and run last or near last against horses they ought to beat.
Slew proved in the Derby that he could get hit, boxed and blocked and still get to the front. WP had that chance today against overmatched horses and didn't do ANYTHING. if he gets a rough trip and loses to Atoned or BT, I say "OK, he got a lesson." He was dreadful. Either he is a cold frontrunner with no heart for a fight, or something was very wrong with him.
This coming from someone who has him at the top of a published "Derby Dozen List" as of last Tuesday.

whodey17 · #2 03-15-2008, 08:38 PM

Good training by Zito today. I wonder if it ever entered his mind that it might be a good idea to try to teach War Pass to rate. It is amazing how War Pass has won on his talent and only his talent. Put War Pass in the hands of a capable trainer and he prob wins today and many more races in the future.

I love some of Zito's comments: "But he got moving and I thought he was in a good position going down the back, but when (Cornelio Velasquez) asked him, nothing happened. I don't know what happened. I just don't know." Glad to know that he doesn't know what happened. Heck, I could have told you that Zito doesn't know anything about training. And Zito thought he was in good position going down the back??? Glad to know Zito knows his horse so well.

Another example of a horse of Zito's who wins purely on his talent and not the combination of talent and trainer's talent.

#3 03-15-2008, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whodey17

Good training by Zito today. I wonder if it ever entered his mind that it might be a good idea to try to teach War Pass to rate. It is amazing how War Pass has won on his talent and only his talent. Put War Pass in the hands of a capable trainer and he prob wins today and many more races in the future.

I love some of Zito's comments: "But he got moving and I thought he was in a good position going down the back, but when (Cornelio Velasquez) asked him, nothing happened. I don't know what happened. I just don't know." Glad to know that he doesn't know what happened. Heck, I could have told you that Zito doesn't know anything about training. And Zito thought he was in good position going down the back??? Glad to know Zito knows his horse so well.

Another example of a horse of Zito's who wins purely on his talent and not the combination of talent and trainer's talent.

Did you still go all in the race?

Cajungator26 · #4 03-15-2008, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whodey17

Good training by Zito today. I wonder if it ever entered his mind that it might be a good idea to try to teach War Pass to rate. It is amazing how War Pass has won on his talent and only his talent. Put War Pass in the hands of a capable trainer and he prob wins today and many more races in the future.

I love some of Zito's comments: "But he got moving and I thought he was in a good position going down the back, but when (Cornelio Velasquez) asked him, nothing happened. I don't know what happened. I just don't know." Glad to know that he doesn't know what happened. Heck, I could have told you that Zito doesn't know anything about training. And Zito thought he was in good position going down the back??? Glad to know Zito knows his horse so well.

Another example of a horse of Zito's who wins purely on his talent and not the combination of talent and trainer's talent.

I was wondering when you would chirp in. Get a clue.

ArlJim78 · #5 03-15-2008, 08:42 PM

like clockwork, old reliable mr. objectivity.

Danzig · #6 03-15-2008, 08:48 PM

you read threads like this, and then wonder how people can complain when a horse is retired. one loss, and many are ready to throw in the towel on the horse, and crucify the trainer. but we're supposed to expect breeders, owners and stud farms to risk a horses reputation. we want to see them run!!! that way, when one loses, we can bash the hell out of them..and then expect the stud farm to know that we'll understand when a horse loses. after all, they aren't machines.

unless they go off at 1/9.

Cajungator26 · #7 03-15-2008, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Thank you for this. People have very short, selective memories. I realize it's Derby time, so sanity is thrown away, but this thread really take sthe cake. I'll admit, I'm just a dumb gambler, but to me it looked like he wasn't comfortable. Whether he is sick, hated rating, hated the track, Stevie Wonder could see that the real War Pass did not show up today.

Obviously going into this season, the big question was War Pass negotiating 10 furlongs. That question remains and after today, who knows if it will ever be answered. But I think we can all agree War pass has a lot of quality to him. Is he unbeatable, of course not and no one ever said he was. I just wonder if back in '94 people were talking about Holy Bull in this light after the Fountain of Youth. I'm not comparing the 2, but this is a pretty similar to what happened that day and if memory serves me right, he vindicated himself a few weeks later.

Well said.

mclem10011 · #8 03-15-2008, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Thank you for this. People have very short, selective memories. I realize it's Derby time, so sanity is thrown away, but this thread really take sthe cake. I'll admit, I'm just a dumb gambler, but to me it looked like he wasn't comfortable. Whether he is sick, hated rating, hated the track, Stevie Wonder could see that the real War Pass did not show up today.

Obviously going into this season, the big question was War Pass negotiating 10 furlongs. That question remains and after today, who knows if it will ever be answered. But I think we can all agree War pass has a lot of quality to him. Is he unbeatable, of course not and no one ever said he was. I just wonder if back in '94 people were talking about Holy Bull in this light after the Fountain of Youth. I'm not comparing the 2, but this is a pretty similar to what happened that day and if memory serves me right, he vindicated himself a few weeks later.

That about sums it up folks, nicely put.

fpsoxfan · #9 03-16-2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaHoss9698

Thank you for this. People have very short, selective memories. I realize it's Derby time, so sanity is thrown away, but this thread really take sthe cake. I'll admit, I'm just a dumb gambler, but to me it looked like he wasn't comfortable. Whether he is sick, hated rating, hated the track, Stevie Wonder could see that the real War Pass did not show up today.

Obviously going into this season, the big question was War Pass negotiating 10 furlongs. That question remains and after today, who knows if it will ever be answered. But I think we can all agree War pass has a lot of quality to him. Is he unbeatable, of course not and no one ever said he was. I just wonder if back in '94 people were talking about Holy Bull in this light after the Fountain of Youth. I'm not comparing the 2, but this is a pretty similar to what happened that day and if memory serves me right, he vindicated himself a few weeks later.

Great point Hoss. I was away all weekend, but had a chance to see the race. And even though it's easy to say now, I also agree that the horse just did not feel comfortable. Anyone who gives up on this horse now, really doesn't know and understand horse racing.

declansharbor · #10 03-15-2008, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whodey17

Good training by Zito today. I wonder if it ever entered his mind that it might be a good idea to try to teach War Pass to rate. It is amazing how War Pass has won on his talent and only his talent. Put War Pass in the hands of a capable trainer and he prob wins today and many more races in the future.

I love some of Zito's comments: "But he got moving and I thought he was in a good position going down the back, but when (Cornelio Velasquez) asked him, nothing happened. I don't know what happened. I just don't know." Glad to know that he doesn't know what happened. Heck, I could have told you that Zito doesn't know anything about training. And Zito thought he was in good position going down the back??? Glad to know Zito knows his horse so well.

Another example of a horse of Zito's who wins purely on his talent and not the combination of talent and trainer's talent.

Zito's absolute worst day would eclipse your best one by miles, any day of the year.
Stick to what you know, which would be nothing, besides post race comments.

GPK · #11 03-15-2008, 09:15 PM

Ok...Im gonna attempt something I rarely do around here, and that is inject a voice of reason.

Anyone happen to notice on the PP's that War Pass had ZERO....count 'em ZERO works over the track?

I have seen enough races at TBD to know that not every horse takes to the sandy surface there. I have seen enough horses run well there and run like sh*t elsewhere and visa versa.

GPK · #12 03-15-2008, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPK

Ok...Im gonna attempt something I rarely do around here, and that is inject a voice of reason.

Anyone happen to notice on the PP's that War Pass had ZERO....count 'em ZERO works over the track?

I have seen enough races at TBD to know that not every horse takes to the sandy surface there. I have seen enough horses run well there and run like sh*t elsewhere and visa versa.

I REPEAT....ZERO WORKS OVER THE TRACK

hoovesupsideyourhead · #13 03-15-2008, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPK

I REPEAT....ZERO WORKS OVER THE TRACK

its a travishamockery..gpk the voice of reason..war pass is a broken down rat...thats what we should say after tossing a clunker..i think not....pyro has two ..his last two were not that good.........

GPK · #14 03-15-2008, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

its a travishamockery..gpk the voice of reason..war pass is a broken down rat...thats what we should say after tossing a clunker..i think not....pyro has two ..his last two were not that good.........

MN....if there is ever a track you HAVE to take that into consideration, its TBD.

hoovesupsideyourhead · #15 03-15-2008, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPK

MN....if there is ever a track you HAVE to take that into consideration, its TBD.

i hear ya......on a side note i got down in pool 2 on elysium fields 17-1
and smooth air 99-1 in future pool 2

Danzig · #16 03-15-2008, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GPK

MN....if there is ever a track you HAVE to take that into consideration, its TBD.

when they talked about the track make up, the amount of sand..i thought Uh-Oh.
i think the achilles heel exhibited by war pass today was exposed by a variety of factors all coming together at once, showing once again why they RACE-not just pass the entry box.

ateamstupid · #17 03-16-2008, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead

its a travishamockery..gpk the voice of reason..war pass is a broken down rat...thats what we should say after tossing a clunker..i think not....pyro has two ..his last two were not that good.........

Pretty sure Pyro won his last two and didn't run last at 1/9.

I'm not saying we should write War Pass off as a rat, but jeez, he didn't break well, he didn't like the track, he was sick, he didn't like rating, the sun was in his eyes.. It ain't like he didn't run a step. He looked to be in great position to win, then hit the brakes..

The Bid · #18 03-16-2008, 01:08 PM

Great position for a horse whos a confirmed front runner is on the lead. At no point in time during the TBD was War Pass in great position for his running style.

Cajungator26 · #19 03-15-2008, 09:15 PM

Off topic, but look at Big Truck when he was a baby:

So cute.

NTamm1215 · #20 03-15-2008, 09:19 PM

DrugS mentioned the potential usefulness in War Pass getting a stalking trip today and seeing how he could work with it. It may have happened inadvertently, but War Pass was put in a situation here where he was stalking. He hated it. That makes me think his chances in the Derby are even worse. Not a revelation here, but just my $.02.

NT