Can this Jockey be a bigger douchebag ?

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by The Bid

Cannon thats just the way I see it. I dont think a trainers 10PCT should HAVE to be staked to the help. Just like I dont think the jocks should be forced to pay a set amount to a valet, and owners shouldnt be forced to buy the barn win tickets.

Im sure a lot of it is tax deductable, its still a lot of money for a lot of nothing. I have no issue with saying a jock is overpaid, but if thats the case so are the valets and agents.

I am not saying the jocks are overpaid. If they are good at their job I have no problem with them being well compensated. I do believe that they are ungrateful, spoiled babies in many cases. They contribute far less to a horses success than a trainer yet are paid the same amount. Maybe we should pay them 5% like the harness drivers get? I suppose Coa doesnt realize that he is a broken arm away from being a hotwalker too. By paying the valets less and increasing their taxable income, they will wind up paying the govt more. That makes a lot of sense. They complain about the weights (which is total bs), they want someone else to pay their insurance bills, they bankrupt their own organization yet want more handouts for their worthless "media rights", they want to pay their employees less, etc. the tracks do their accounting and billing for them for nothing.

[Honu]

When I started riding races in 1986 I was told from other riders in the room you pay your valet 10% of your whole pay check , not whats left over after you pay your agent 25% and uncle sam and your tack bill and all that other crap.
The valets also get paid by the track a daily wage to saddle horses , the guy that sets your silks and cleans your saddle is not always the guy who saddles your horse , the valest are usually assigned numbers and that is who they saddle. The valets are also in a union , so when they retire they get their union benifits and all the other stuff that goes with it .
When I spent a summer riding here in California I couldnt believe that the horsemans bookkeeper would take 5% of my money and put it on the valets paycheck without asking me , that is just the way it is done here and really to be honest its wrong for them to take money from my paycheck.
I always paid my valet 10 % of my check and if we had a really good week Id throw a lil extra in too , but there were weeks when we didnt make much and he would say hey just catch me next time ok .
I believe the valets take care of the riders because its extra money in their pocket and they should be paid for it but I dont think its the racetracks place to take money out of my check and pay them , so I can see where the big guys who make alot of money could be getting pissed.
Some places the valets make 10$ per jocks ride and 25$ per win or however the scale goes , but it is always up to the rider how much they are gonna pay them. Most jockeys have good relationships with their valets and take care of them well , I just dont believe that they should be paid out of my paycheck without me saying so.

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

I am not saying the jocks are overpaid. If they are good at their job I have no problem with them being well compensated. I do believe that they are ungrateful, spoiled babies in many cases. They contribute far less to a horses success than a trainer yet are paid the same amount. Maybe we should pay them 5% like the harness drivers get? I suppose Coa doesnt realize that he is a broken arm away from being a hotwalker too. By paying the valets less and increasing their taxable income, they will wind up paying the govt more. That makes a lot of sense. They complain about the weights (which is total bs), they want someone else to pay their insurance bills, they bankrupt their own organization yet want more handouts for their worthless "media rights", they want to pay their employees less, etc. the tracks do their accounting and billing for them for nothing.

You say those media rights are worthless but Id like to see racetracks and stallion frams and owners promote their horses with no image of a rider on their backs.
You know people take pictures of me on horses all the time and I see no money from it , Horse Photos.com can take my pic on a horse and sell it for how much ever they want with no consent of mine.
How would you like it if people were taking your pic and selling it and making money and you never saw a dime of it , bet you wouldnt stand for it long , bet youd hire a lawyer and sue their ass for it .
As for the accounting and billing that is a relation between the horseman and the bookkeeper , the horseman have agreed to having the owners pay out of their account rather than the jockey hunting them down to get the money.
I dont know about the whole insurance thing but from what I have always understood its about workmans comp .
Not every jockey is in the jockeys guild , not everyone agreed to give them money , I never did and i also rode when they went on strike , so dont lump all jocks into the guild because not all of us were memebers.
To me there is a simple solution , owners should hire jocks on a contract like they do in Europe, that way you own them , you are their employeer , and you treat them as such , works for the Euro's and the Sheiks why couldnt it work here?

Originally Posted by Honu

How would you like it if people were taking your pic and selling it and making money and you never saw a dime of it , bet you wouldnt stand for it long , bet youd hire a lawyer and sue their ass for it .

Hmm.

*contacts the marketing department for Swanson*

[Storm Cadet]

are these valets the sole worker one one jockey like a golf caddie or do they handle multiple jockeys on a daily basis?

Are they like club house workers in pro sports where they are on salary from the team as well as getting tips from the ball players for all the personal stuff they do in a MLB clubhouse?

Can you imagine a valet asking for 10% of Jeter or A Rods salary to keep their shirts/pants clean and shoes shined each day? Face it, what does the valet REALLY do? Have a nylon shirt (racing silk) ready to hand the jockey? Most tracks already have a guy who handles all the silks to get them correct. And shine a couple of pairs of boots each day so they are clean for the next race owners to be proud of???

The jocks DONT eat, so it's not like most clubbies who serve team pre and post meals and have snacks ready for players. I've been in the Belmont jocks room and it's crap. Old dirty, not like a nice team locker room. They surely don't make it a nice environment for their jockeys. The clubbies in pro sports are responsible for the cleanliness of showers, team rooms and locker rooms.

So what do they do for 10% of a jockeys purse? I'm in the sports business and owned and raced horses for 7 years...but 10% seems a little steep to be a valet, especially if they are already on a track payroll. IMO

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

are these valets the sole worker one one jockey like a golf caddie or do they handle multiple jockeys on a daily basis?

Are they like club house workers in pro sports where they are on salary from the team as well as getting tips from the ball players for all the personal stuff they do in a MLB clubhouse?

Can you imagine a valet asking for 10% of Jeter or A Rods salary to keep their shirts/pants clean and shoes shined each day? Face it, what does the valet REALLY do? Have a nylon shirt (racing silk) ready to hand the jockey? Most tracks already have a guy who handles all the silks to get them correct. And shine a couple of pairs of boots each day so they are clean for the next race owners to be proud of???

The jocks DONT eat, so it's not like most clubbies who serve team pre and post meals and have snacks ready for players. I've been in the Belmont jocks room and it's crap. Old dirty, not like a nice team locker room. They surely don't make it a nice environment for their jockeys. The clubbies in pro sports are responsible for the cleanliness of showers, team rooms and locker rooms.

So what do they do for 10% of a jockeys purse? I'm in the sports business and owned and raced horses for 7 years...but 10% seems a little steep to be a valet, especially if they are already on a track payroll. IMO

For their 10% they hang your silks at your box in order of horses you ride , they clean all your goggles with pledge and usually set your helmet up for the next race(most jocks have 2 ). They also set your big or little saddle depending on the weight you have to make and at the end of the day they clean your boots and saddle. There is a person in the jocks rooms who does all the laundry and the valets sort it out the next day and give each jock their stuff.
Valets also provide shampoo and shower things such as soap and towels and shower slippers ( dont wanna get any foot funk) and really good valets try and provide extra stuff whatever that might be.
Some valets (the really good ones) could have the top 3 or 4 riders in the standings , usually when you start as a valet they give you the lower rung jocks and you work your way up , if you so desire.
There is a guy here at Santa Anita who retired after 25 years as a valet and his pension is 4000.00 a month , thats some pretty good ching if you ask me.

[Storm Cadet]

Seems like one organized adult guy with some teenagers could do the same thing for all the jockey in one room..just like the Met/Yankees clubhouse. 25 players & 10 more coaches all get their wash done, get everything hung in a locker, shoes shined each day, same shampoo and soap and towels, helmets shined each day, sunglasses cleaned each day, equipment cleaned, travel bags packed and unpacked, gloves repaired, mail sorted, bats brought back and forth to the dugout each day, full meals pre and post game, plus all the snacks you could ever dream of....all from clubhouse dues of $25 per day per player!

If I was a jockey I'd give the valets a 20 spot each day and call it even for the small amount of work they really do compared to other pro athletes clubhouse attendants or valets in baseball, football and ice hockey.

[AeWingnut]

[Riot]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

If I was a jockey I'd give the valets a 20 spot each day and call it even for the small amount of work they really do compared to other pro athletes clubhouse attendants or valets in baseball, football and ice hockey.

So you think the valets should make $2.50 an hour.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

are these valets the sole worker one one jockey like a golf caddie or do they handle multiple jockeys on a daily basis?

Are they like club house workers in pro sports where they are on salary from the team as well as getting tips from the ball players for all the personal stuff they do in a MLB clubhouse?

Can you imagine a valet asking for 10% of Jeter or A Rods salary to keep their shirts/pants clean and shoes shined each day? Face it, what does the valet REALLY do? Have a nylon shirt (racing silk) ready to hand the jockey? Most tracks already have a guy who handles all the silks to get them correct. And shine a couple of pairs of boots each day so they are clean for the next race owners to be proud of???

The jocks DONT eat, so it's not like most clubbies who serve team pre and post meals and have snacks ready for players. I've been in the Belmont jocks room and it's crap. Old dirty, not like a nice team locker room. They surely don't make it a nice environment for their jockeys. The clubbies in pro sports are responsible for the cleanliness of showers, team rooms and locker rooms.

So what do they do for 10% of a jockeys purse? I'm in the sports business and owned and raced horses for 7 years...but 10% seems a little steep to be a valet, especially if they are already on a track payroll. IMO

Are you serious? First of all you obviously didnt read the story because the valets in question make 5%, not 10%. Secondly you know that Jockeys dont make Arod money and comparing facilities to the Yankees or pro sports lockerrooms is it is a terrible example. They make about $50 per day from the track but that is to saddle the horses, not take care of the jock. A valet for a top jock works his ass off saddling every race, getting a clean pair of riding pants each race and doing the laundry during the races, cleaning the tack and attending to the riders needs often in about 20 minutes time, nine times or 10 times a day. Thats not even counting the time spent running the jocks bets...

[Storm Cadet]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Are you serious? First of all you obviously didnt read the story because the valets in question make 5%, not 10%. Secondly you know that Jockeys dont make Arod money and comparing facilities to the Yankees or pro sports lockerrooms is it is a terrible example. They make about $50 per day from the track but that is to saddle the horses, not take care of the jock. A valet for a top jock works his ass off saddling every race, getting a clean pair of riding pants each race and doing the laundry during the races, cleaning the tack and attending to the riders needs often in about 20 minutes time, nine times or 10 times a day. Thats not even counting the time spent running the jocks bets...

Jocks get 10% of purses right? JV made 25 mil, Gomez 28 mil purse last year...
So if a top valet does Johnny V (2.5 million earned) and Gomez (2.8 mill) and say a lesser guy who makes 1 mil a year, the valet gets 5% of 6.3 million. $330,000 a year ...WTF are we doing as trainers Cannon????

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

Jocks get 10% of purses right? JV made 25 mil, Gomez 28 mil purse last year...
So if a top valet does Johnny V (2.5 million earned) and Gomez (2.8 mill) and say a lesser guy who makes 1 mil a year, the valet gets 5% of 6.3 million. $330,000 a year ...WTF are we doing as trainers Cannon????

What they earn versus what their mounts earn is not the same thing because they get 5% from losing mounts, not 10%. I'm not very good at cleaning up after myself much less after a mini me.

[ELA]

Originally Posted by Storm Cadet

Jocks get 10% of purses right? JV made 25 mil, Gomez 28 mil purse last year...
So if a top valet does Johnny V (2.5 million earned) and Gomez (2.8 mill) and say a lesser guy who makes 1 mil a year, the valet gets 5% of 6.3 million. $330,000 a year ...WTF are we doing as trainers Cannon????

Not looking to instigate anything or make you out to be wrong, however, your assumptions, and thus your math, are not accurate.

Eric

[Honu]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Are you serious? First of all you obviously didnt read the story because the valets in question make 5%, not 10%. Secondly you know that Jockeys dont make Arod money and comparing facilities to the Yankees or pro sports lockerrooms is it is a terrible example. They make about $50 per day from the track but that is to saddle the horses, not take care of the jock. A valet for a top jock works his ass off saddling every race, getting a clean pair of riding pants each race and doing the laundry during the races, cleaning the tack and attending to the riders needs often in about 20 minutes time, nine times or 10 times a day. Thats not even counting the time spent running the jocks bets...

They dont do the laundry , they dont clean the pants , the pants are already in your box and there is a person who does ALL the laundry at the end of the day .
Plus they want another 5 % added to the 5 % they already get , and believe me they get more than 50$ to work for the track saddling horses , and they dont clean your saddle in between races .
Dont tell me what I know about something I saw everyday , your not in the room .

[SentToStud]

More important, why is the term, when used in a horse racing context, pronounced to rhyme with "mallet" and not "chalet?"

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Honu

They dont do the laundry , they dont clean the pants , the pants are already in your box and there is a person who does ALL the laundry at the end of the day .
Plus they want another 5 % added to the 5 % they already get , and believe me they get more than 50$ to work for the track saddling horses , and they dont clean your saddle in between races .
Dont tell me what I know about something I saw everyday , your not in the room .

Previously, valets in New York were paid 5 percent of money earned at that specific meet, 2.5 percent for money earned out of town, and there was no cap. Valets, whose job is to take care of a rider's personal needs as well as saddle the horses, also receive a weekly salary from the New York Racing Association, their employers, ranging from $250 to $325 a week.

Before you get on your high horse, I suggest you read the story which clearly states what the valets get from NYRA.

[the_fat_man]

As someone who doesn't bet based on the character of the jockeys (or any of the other connections), I could care less whether Coa, or any other jock, is a nice guy.

In fact, I nominate ANY JOCK who insists on riding the rail at KEE (hard to believe, there are jocks actually doing this) as contender for the BIG DOUCHEBAG award. This will be a multi-competitor, tough fought battle to the end.

This matters.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Honu

You say those media rights are worthless but Id like to see racetracks and stallion frams and owners promote their horses with no image of a rider on their backs.

They are worthless because there is no market for them. A good or service is only worth as much as consumers will pay for it. Since there are no consumers for jockeys media rights, they have no value.

[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by Honu

How would you like it if people were taking your pic and selling it and making money and you never saw a dime of it , bet you wouldnt stand for it long , bet youd hire a lawyer and sue their ass for it .

Are you kidding? If someone could make money off of pictures of me I would declare them a genius and ask for a job.

[blackthroatedwind]

Originally Posted by Cannon Shell

Are you kidding? If someone could make money off of pictures of me I would declare them a genius and ask for a job.

You're discounting the beastiality market.