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Originally Posted by horseofcourse
In his prime Dawson was the better defensive player by a large margin...but offensively he was not close. I don't know how ball park plays into that...but Rice was 20 points higher career average...30 points higher career OBP and 20 points higher career slugging. Dawson was a power hitter from day one. He hit 19 as a rookie which in the mid 70s was a decent number and was hitting 25 by his second year. His game was not speed based ever. He was a power hitter who could run in his Montreal days. I don't think he transferred his game...he simply improved his power naturally as he aged and as his knees fell apart he lost his speed. He had enough power to be a plus offensive power if he had no speed at all...the speed early in his career was just a bonus and yes, Rice never did have that.
If you want to call Dawson a better player I have no problem with that...by a large margin is laughable. I honestly don't know how much a liability Rice was in left field if at all. Rice was a far superior offensive player as the numbers verify however...and I'm not sure how much of that was ballpark influenced. All phases of the game, I'd agree Dawson was better, but I think Rice was better by a pretty large margin with the bat which is why I prefer Rice as a HOFer more than Dawson though I think both are pretty questionable.
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There are five tools that players are measured by. Fielding, throwing running hitting for average and hitting for power. Dawson was laughably better at fielding, throwing and running while Rice was marginally better as a hitter. Overall Dawson was a better player because he was clearly superior in three catagories while marginally worse in others though if you take into consideration the ballpark factors is probably even. Olympic stadium was never a good hitting enviroment. Not to mention his career numbers which are a major factor in hall of fame voting are better in hits, runs, rbis, 2b, 3bs, hrs, SBs and in negative far fewer GIDP. I just dont see why you think Rice was better by a clear margin as a hitter. Go to baseball-reference.com and neutralize the stats and see what the numbers look like without park bias.