Quote:
Originally Posted by pointman
I think that you missed my point. What I am saying is that Obama's lack of real support for the Arab Spring was a missed opportunity for us which could have spread in a big way and is becoming an opportunity that terrorists are seizing upon. While I hope that you are right and the vast majority of Libyan's really don't agree with global jihad, the jury is still out at this point as to who is really going to have control. Hopefully both Egypt and Libya will have democracies, but it appears that our willingness to stay out of it for the most part is allowing dictatorial factions against our interests the opportunity to grab control of the government.
The lack of support for the Iranian Arab Spring is indefensible IMO. Obama did not have Gaddafi killed, we were just one part of a coalition that provided no-fly zones which led to his killing.
Egypt is not a democracy yet, the military is still running that country, it remains to be seen if real democracy will occur there. As for swift action, those responsible must hunted down and be held accountable to send the message that violence against our embassies and diplomats will not be tolerated.
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yes, it was a missed opportunity in that we first tried to keep mubarek in power. he missed the boat on that one, and then tried to change course. that only painted us in a worse light.
and yes, nato was the predominant force in libya. however, i feel that we have stretched ourselves too thin, into too many directions, and gotten involved outside of our 'sphere of influence' which for decades was north america alone. makes you wonder why we try to so hard to have all these allies, if we're still going to 'go it alone' and fund so much of this on our own. we've made so many errors in foreign policy for so long...it's not something we can fix overnight. but i think the first thing we should do is pull back.
the second thing we should do is be consistent. we are ignoring some damned good advice from some who came before. we were cautioned about getting involved in european affairs, those countries have been fighting each other for a couple millenia. we were also told 'don't have constant allies' and that's also a good point. just because someone is an ally, doesn't mean they're always right, or that we should always support them. it keeps you from standing for what's right, which demeans you in the end.
the spanish american war was fought because of our interests here. ww 1 was not. ww 2 was a mess, with ww1 being a big catalyst for two. we shouldn't have ever gotten involved in 'nam, which was caused by whom? france. what as ww1 over? europe and her empires. it had nothing to do with us, or our interests. we weren't a superpower until after ww2-but we managed to turn the tide in not one, but two conflagrations even tho we had next to no army leading up to both of those wars.
now look at us. and what has been gained, here, by us being everywhere? joseph stalin was our 'ally' in ww2. why? that's absurd. did you see the news yesterday, where the u.s. and u.k. willingly covered up the murder of thousands of poles by the russians, that we blamed the nazis? because we didn't want to 'alienate' our ally. he needed us far more than we needed him. that's when we started all that 'the enemy of my enemy is my friend' crap, and where are we now? look at all the years after ww2. we had a war started because germany invaded poland. hello! russian then invaded poland. decades of cold war from our erstwhile ally.
afganistan, largest recipient of foreign aid from us in the years leading to 9-11. we supported them vs the ussr, and for what? where did that get us? nowhere.
saddam hussein, dictator, an 'ally' during their war with iran.
mubarak, dictator, an ally in egypt. it makes no sense. and you want us more involved?
sorry, i completely disagree with that. we need to go back to how we were in the years before ww1. here, until absolutely, positively needed. and meanwhile, a country that others will want to emulate. but we need to quit thinking we should have a finger in every damned pie that comes down the pike.