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Originally Posted by SCUDSBROTHER
I think you have a simple disagreement in goals going on here. If these people fighting you don't seem interested in the improvements you're mentioning, it's because they don't value these things. They value exclusivity. They aren't interested in changes that make for a more decent (civil) society at all. They don't value that, and there is nothing that can be done to make them better people. They are selfish, and forcing companies to treat people in a decent way isn't going to interest them very much. Do they seem interested? They are what they are. You can't change selfish minds with arguments that have a payoff that involves protecting all citizens from a poor outcome. They aren't highly interested in that. Notice how these consumer protections haven't thrilled them? They lack the values that are necessary for one to be able to cherish such important consumer protections.
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Interesting. I haven't seen too many discuss the psychological aspects of the current polarization of the country on most issues. I don't know if I would agree with all those characterizations. Some of them, yes.
Some (the general "some") are clearly mislead about what is or is not involved in health reform (thinking things are there that are clearly not). Thus they dislike something that doesn't exist. I'm not interested in changing peoples opinion to match mine. But I am interested in discussing differences of opinion, based in accuracy. Before you can assess something, you have to at least have some familiarity with it. If you actually know what is there, and don't like it, that's different than blindly fearing the unknown, or having been lied to about content ("death panels" "Muslim Kenyan" type of thing)
I wouldn't characterize most who disagree with health reform as selfish individualists. I see nothing wrong with strong individualism, and think it can co-exist with strong societal mores and sense of community, co-shared existence.
I do think it's true most people don't worry about what's not directly affecting them or under their own nose. And many fear change for change's sake, fear of the unknown, "outside forces", especially when the country has been so unsteady the past few years.