[King Glorious]

[quote=Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985

I guess this as good a place as any to point out the merits of John Smoltz.
His lifetime record is 213 - 155 but considering he lost a year to injury and was a full time closer the following 4 years afterwards it looks a lot more impressive. Had he just pitched normally during those 5 years he would be at around 285-290 right now. The fact that he was able to mid-career become the best relief pitcher in the NL and record 154 saves in 3 1.2 years then go back to the rotation and become one of the leagues best starters at age 37-40 is unparalleled in baseball history. When you look at the other stats like k's, era, whip, k/9, Innings, saves, h/9, bb/9, k/bb, he is clearly HoF caliber. He twice led the league in wins and win%, led the league in k's, Innings pitched and saves. Think about that, led the league in innings pitched and also led in saves. Smoltz won a Cy Young as a starter and finished third as a closer. He also won a silver slugger award.

But what seals the deal is his post season performance. His record was 15-4 with a 2.67 era and 4 saves in 41 games. He was 7-0 with 3 saves in the NLDS. 6-2 with a 2.83 era in the NLCS and 2-2 with a 2.47 era in the WS.

Of the 4 losses one was 2-1 to the Phils in 93, Smoltz gave up both runs unearned.
The 96 loss in the WS was a 1-0 loss when the run was again unearned.
The loss in the 99 series was a 4-1 loss where he gave up 3 runs, all earned.
The 97 loss was the only one where he didnt pitch well, giving up 5 runs in 6 innings in a 5-2 loss.
So in his 4 postseason losses the Braves scored 5 runs while he gave up 8.

He also got a ND in the famous Jack Morris 10 inning series clincher in 1991, going into the 8th and not allowing a run.

He not only is a lock, he is quite deserving.

I really like Smoltz and he was the toughest one for me to leave out. Even though I think he will make it, if I had a vote, he wouldn't get it. He was a really, really good pitcher and he was great in the post-season. But that's just it. He was consistently good and was so for a long time. But except for one season, he was never great. He did win the Cy Young once but that was his only 20-win season. Only three times did he finish in the top five of the Cy Young voting. Tom Glavine won two and finished in the top five six times. Maddux won four and finished in the top five nine times. Smoltz was in the top three of the voting only twice (Glavine six times, Maddux seven times). Those guys were the dominant pitchers and the no-brainers here. Smoltz was a cut below. I think that at the same time a player like Helton's numbers should be examined closer because of where he played, I think Smoltz' should be examined closer because of where he played. Not because it was IN Atlanta but because it was FOR Atlanta. Those teams were always among the best in baseball. If you look at the stretch of his career starting in 1991 when they won their first division title until 2005 when they won their last in their great run, you find something that I think is kind of interesting. Here's his winning % per season against the teams winning %:

Year.........Smoltz..........Braves.......Glavine. .....Maddux
91..............519.............580..........645.. .........na
92..............556.............605..........714.. .........na
93..............577.............642..........786.. .........667
94..............375.............596..........591.. .........727
95..............632.............625..........696.. .........905
96..............750.............593..........600.. .........577
97..............556.............623..........667.. .........826
98..............850.............654..........769.. .........667
99..............579.............636..........560.. .........679
00...............na..............586..........700. ..........679
01...............na..............543..........696. ..........607
02...............na..............630..........621. ..........727
03...............na..............623...........na. ...........593
04...............na..............593...........na. ............na
05..............667.............556...........na.. ...........na

In 2000, Smoltz was hurt and didn't pitch and from 2000-04, he was a reliever. That leaves 10 seasons as a starting pitcher and in those 10 seasons, only four times did he finish with a higher winning % than the team did. Glavine was better than the team in nine of his 12 years and Maddux was better than the team in nine of his 11. It makes me wonder what his record would look like if he was playing for more average teams during that span? Was he more a product of his environment that people want to admit? His post-season success pushes him closer to being in and I wouldn't have any problem with anyone that felt like he deserves it. It's that close. But I wouldn't vote close. I'd only vote those guys that made me say yes as soon as you mentioned their names.