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Originally Posted by Rupert Pupkin
What are you talking about? Practically every horse out out there today does it the right way. The original question had to do with horses winning big races at 2,3, and 4. If there aren't any, then that makes your argument even weaker. It would mean that what I'm saying is not extreme enough. I'm saying that a horse can last and stay in top form as a 2, 3 , and 4 year old if they are raced sparingly. If I am wrong, and a horse can't stay in top form for 3 straight years running sparingly, then they certainly can't stay in top form for 3 years straight running 15 times a year. That's the stupidest thing I ever heard.
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You gave us three horses from 20 years ago that were by reasonable definition not raced sparingly: multiple times they had come back on short rest and two of them had 10+ starts at 3. Your job was to come up with horses that were major stakes horses at 2, 3 and 4 which were raced sparingly. Perhaps this battle is mainly over respective definitions of "sparingly" but I will define "sparingly" as "typical of 21st century G1 horses - fewer than 4 starts at 2, maybe a half-dozen starts per year thereafter spaced widely." After all, this whole thread is about what widely spaced schedules have done to racing. Have at it. Find us some.
In the meantime, I'll trot out some examples of horses who somehow, miraculously, survived campaigns you say that horses can't handle.
The old American Racing Manuals had an interesting feature. They used to include the past performances of all the horses rated on the Experimental and Free handicaps in the early 1960s. Let's see what kind of race records that the horses who were good enough to make the Experimental Handicap at 2 and the Free Handicap at 3 and 4 had:
Foals of 1957
Colts and Geldings
All Hands - 9 starts at 2, 17 starts at 3, 13 starts at 4
April Skies - 9 starts at 2, 23 starts at 3, 18 starts at 4
Bourbon Prince - 12 stars at 2, 11 starts at 3, 15 starts at 4
Conestoga - 11 starts at 2, 17 starts at 3, 9 starts at 4
Count Amber - 15 starts at 2, 17 starts at 3, 10 starts at 4
Heroshogala - 15 starts at 2, 21 starts at 3, 21 starts at 4
New Policy - 11 starts at 2, 16 starts at 3, 12 starts at 4
Pied d'Or - 13 starts at 2, 19 starts at 3, 21 starts at 4
Run for Nurse - 21 starts at 2, 18 starts at 3, 19 starts at 4
T.V. Lark - 14 starts at 2, 23 starts at 3, 18 starts at 4
Fillies
Airmans Guide - 6 starts at 2, 4 starts at 3, 10 starts at 4
Darling June - 11 starts at 2, 10 starts at 3, 15 starts at 4
Evening Glow - 7 starts at 2, 5 starts at 3, 17 starts at 4
Make Sail - 4 starts at 2, 19 starts at 3, 18 starts at 4
My Dear Girl - 7 starts at 2, 11 starts at 3, 2 starts at 4
Rash Statement - 12 starts at 2, 17 starts at 3, 17 starts at 4
Sarcastic - 8 starts at 2, 14 starts at 3, 10 starts at 4
Undulation - 3 starts at 2, 10 starts at 3, 4 starts at 4
Foals of 1958
Colts and Geldings
Beau Prince - 11 starts at 2, 18 starts at 3, 14 starts at 4
Bluescope - 7 starts at 2, 16 starts at 3, 14 starts at 4
Carry Back - 21 starts at 2, 16 starts at 3, 18 starts at 4
Crozier - 6 starts at 2, 15 starts at 3, 9 starts at 4
Editorialist - 12 starts at 2, 14 starts at 3, 18 starts at 4
Garwol - 18 starts at 2, 16 starts at 3, 26 starts at 4
Globemaster - 11 starts at 2, 10 starts at 3, 6 starts at 4
Guadalcanal - 4 starts at 2, 10 starts at 3, 15 starts at 4
Hitting Away - 3 starts at 2, 15 starts at 3, 19 starts at 4
Olden Times - 6 starts at 2, 9 starts at 3, 13 starts at 4
Try Cash - 8 starts at 2, 16 starts at 3, 21 starts at 4
Vapor Whirl - 18 starts at 2, 15 starts at 3, 4 starts at 4
Fillies
Counter Call - 5 starts at 2, 9 starts at 3, 16 starts at 4
Mighty Fair - 8 starts at 2, 27 starts at 3, 16 starts at 4
My Portrait - 10 starts at 2, 17 starts at 3, 19 starts at 4
Play Time - 9 starts at 2, 12 starts at 3, 15 starts at 4
Primonetta - 4 starts at 2, 11 starts at 3, 10 starts at 4
Shuette - 8 starts at 2, 18 starts at 3, 18 starts at 4
Smashing Gail - 8 starts at 2, 11 starts at 3, 7 starts at 4
Times Two - 11 starts at 2, 18 starts at 3, 22 starts at 4
Foals of 1959
Colts and Geldings
Admiral's Voyage - 11 starts at 2, 14 starts at 3, 15 starts at 4
Decidedly - 8 starts at 2, 12 starts at 3, 13 starts at 4
Doc Jocoy - 8 starts at 2, 16 starts at 3, 5 starts at 4
Donut King - 14 starts at 2, 7 starts at 3, 10 starts at 4
Greek Money - 16 starts at 2, 12 starts at 3, 7 starts at 4
Jaipur - 7 starts at 2, 10 starts at 3, 2 starts at 4
Native Diver - 5 starts at 2, 11 starts at 3, 15 starts at 4
Ridan - 7 starts at 2, 13 starts at 3, 3 starts at 4
Smart - 20 starts at 2, 19 starts at 3, 15 starts at 4
Sunrise County - 11 starts at 2, 10 starts at 3, 13 starts at 4
Times Roman - 11 starts at 2, 16 starts at 3, 11 starts at 4
Fillies
All Brandy - 11 starts at 2, 12 starts at 3, 12 starts at 4
Bramalea - 10 starts at 2, 18 starts at 3, 10 starts at 4
Cicada - 16 starts at 2, 17 starts at 3, 8 starts at 4
Firm Policy - 6 starts at 2, 10 starts at 3, 5 starts at 4
Royal Patrice - 5 starts at 2, 23 starts at 3, 8 starts at 4
Savaii - 7 starts at 2, 12 starts at 3, 22 starts at 4
Tamarona - 10 starts at 2, 19 starts at 3, 18 starts at 4
Upswept - 7 starts at 2, 12 starts at 3, 11 starts at 4
Some of these horses appeared at 5 and beyond on the Free Handicap, but I'm just looking at 2-3-4YO form.
Of course these horses are products of another time: back when US thoroughbreds raced an average of over 10 times a year (vs. 6.5 today) and training intent was quite different. But you would have us believe that it's just plain not possible to have 10-15+ start seasons at any level, let alone among better stakes horses. You're wrong. The horses can do it, if that's the trainer's intent and they do it right.
I could go on, but I actually do have other things I should be doing today. I'm going to assume that you get the point. Even though there are a few horses on these lists who were raced in a relatively "sparing" manner, that does not change the fact that there were many horses capable of running at a decent stakes level at 2-3-4 during these three sample years and most of them were raced anything but sparingly.
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It just shows how hard it is to keep horses sound these days. Unlike the old days, horses today are bred for speed rather than soundness.
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True enough, we breed with complete disregard for soundness. It would help if we expected enough of racehorses that unsound horses who can barely stay in training were not able to accomplish enough to become attractive breeding stock. Your "sparing" campaigns propagate weakness by not selecting against it.
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