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Originally Posted by The Indomitable DrugS
Come on now.
Red Rocks and Better Talk Now might both be one-time Breeders Cup Turf winners - but they are completely not that much horse anymore.
I believe Better Talk Now was just off the board in a race won by the mediocre Champs Elyseeys. Red Rocks went off at 98/1 odds in the Hong Kong Vase with Dettori up - and was soundly beaten in the Coronation in his final Euro start.
They aren't exactly Manilla and Theatrical.
Am I the only one who thought Sudan ran the best race of anyone in the Man O' War?
He got hounded by a David Cohen rabbit through 47.60 and 1:11.80 fractions in an 11 furlong marathon on the Belmont Inner turf and was beaten only three 3 lengths at the end. It's not like the race was run under handicap conditions either - and he was getting 13 pounds in a marathon. Red Rocks and Curlin both got in at 116lbs as neither had a graded stake win on turf this year.
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I think they are more than "not that much horse anymore" -- both for the better part of a campaign will be competitive at a higher level than those horses at Monmouth. And -- if not -- they performed that day! It's easy to say that so and so didn't show up, ran off the board, etc. -- and that makes the entire case. It's just not so.
G1 races are on the calender and pointed to as part of a campaign -- this Monmouth race was put together, late in the game, and made with a checkbook. People show up, bring their A game to G1 races, and sometimes they don't show up for whatever reason. I am not knocking the horses at Monmouth -- I'd love to own any of them -- but that was not a G1 field and certainly not an accomplished field. What are we talking about here -- has been's vs. never was'?
Regardless, my point was that to say BB won on turf and Curlin didn't is not only a fallacious arguement, it's foolish.
Eric