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Originally Posted by 10 pnt move up
" I say how do you know except in an after the fact"
First hand knowledge, at the time I was young and just thought that's what everyone does. To be fair none of those horses who were given medicines for pain ever broke down.
"The idea that scaling back racing schedules will lower the % of breakdowns is interesting yet probably not valid. Less races makes less opportunities to make money which leads to increased pressure to make the spots that are available."
yes this is a bit theory but I know, again first hand knowledge, that trainers have entered horses in California to fill for the secretary with full knowledge they were not ready to run.
"The training of horses has changed but not because of the speed of the tracks. The training of young horses has changed dramatically because owners don't allow horses to race themselves into shape and they reward trainers whose horses come out running first time out"
absolutely zero disagreement there, its a win first mentality perpetuated by the media and breeding industry.
"I would love to have rules like Hong Kong but only if we had a setup like they have with laws that back up the rules. If we had one training track, 2 days of races a week for 9 months out of the year and purses that averaged $130000 per race with high tech security and vets that worked for the association no problem. until we do their system wont work here."
So we should let trainers who bend the rules skate because we don't have the same purse structure? I say the model we have is broken. There are to many tracks, to many races, the wagering dollar is stretched to thin, yet purses have to go up to make it work for the owners and the trainers to make money. That's broken. But we can just keep raising take out, I am willing to bet Ky is on its way up now that NY just raised there to obscene levels.
"Exactly what would you do to make the breeding industry not a sham"
To start the cosmetic surgeries should not be allowed. Medications should not be allowed for these two year old in training sales. Maybe stallion restrictions should be considered. Maybe horses should not be inbred like they have been.
I hate the status quo. This will sound sadistic but I want the whole thing to blow up because its broken. From ADW's, to breeding, to regulation, to product, etc etc...its broken.
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Guys do enter races under pressure from the racing office but it is a stretch to say they are entering sore or horses that should not be running. Usually they hustle to run in a race where you will be 15-1 which is the reason you didnt enter in the first place.
I dont know that the media or breedng industry have as much to do with pressure to win early as does the economics of the business. One of the main reasons that the horseman are united and sticking together on the ADW issue is that we NEED more money while the tracks want more money. Day rates are not covering expenses for most trainers, shipping, feed, and hay expenses are up 30 to 40% but very few of us can raise our day rates because very few owners are willing to lose MORE money, not that I blame them. Therefore people are looking to show off their horses for resale, not necessarily just for for breeding purposes. We understand that everybody is under financial stress but we were in a bad spot before gas was $4.00 a gallon. Some owners simply dont have the time to develop horses like the Phipps. I would probably say most.
I didnt say that trainers should be allowed to bend rules or skate but Hong Kong is a much different situation than we are in here, therefore we cant look to the model or penalty system there as a guide. It is simply too different in terms of setup and the legal system. It would be like imposing NFL franchise regulations on high schools.
I have been in the middle of the road about the surgeries because they may actually help soundness in some ways though they do make it hard no breeders because the real conformation is a bit hidden. I wouldnt cry if they were outlawed but I dont think as poorly about them as much as I used to. Medications at the 2 yo sales have been cut back but to me the simple solution to the 2 year old in training problm is to just not participate very much.