[Cannon Shell]

Originally Posted by parsixfarms

If you read my responses, I never said that changes haven't been made. Part of the problem is that you've been in the business for years, and you know who not to deal with. I've been involved far less (5+ years now), and I have some ideas about certain consignors with whom I won't do business. But what about the new guy who doesn't have such insight? How many of them have been ripped off and are now out of the business?

As for problem items: The drugs are one item, unregulated as they are at the 2YO sales, but we don't need to belabor that point.

My concerns go more to the shenanigans that often go on at the sales. Some examples are phony sales/numbers to drive up stallion averages (which presents a whole different set of problems for breeders); undisclosed ownership of horses in the sales; phantom bidding when there's really no "live" money in the ring; and dual agency (or racing's euphemism for conflict of interest).

I'll give you an example of a situation that drove me nuts last year at Saratoga. We were looking at a horse in the NY-bred Preferred Sale and had him vetted out. Before doing so, the consignor told us that the reserve on the horse was going to be about $45,000. In the interest of shortening the story, we got off the horse (interested in others) and never bid on the horse in question. The horse RNA'd for $60,000, with who knows how much live money on him. The next morning, the consignor shows up at my trainer's barn and tells me: "You almost got him" and then intimated that he wanted to see if a private sale was possible. I told him that we never bid on the horse (you should have seen the look on his face when I told him that) and that we weren't interested. Had we been interested, who knows how much money his phony bidding would have fleeced us for?

You learn in this business like any others, from experience and surrounding yourself with good people who will teach you. I have an issue with some of the things you mentioned but have learned how to deal with them enough to still be effective. Consignors have learned to be straight with me simply because I have learned to not get caught up in the bs. They know I dont deal and that I put a value on a horse and will be firm about it. What i do try to do is get an idea from the consignor if I am in the right ballpark so that I dont waste money vetting horses that I dont have a chance of buying. You have to trust the guy doing business for you but as for the guys selling the horse, they are like used car salesman. The phony sales are hard to stop because if the horse owner is willing to pay the commissions than so be it. I still dont understand why there isnt owner disclosure at the sales though they would just create shell companies anyway to avoid any rules. Phantom bidding only effects you if you spend more than you want to. I mean if you value a horse at $50000 and the bidding goes to $60000 and the horse is an RNA you are still able to offer the 50k after the fact. My advice is to simply remain firm on what you value the horse at. If you dont have a real good idea of what you are willing to pay going in then you can get caught up in some crap. And if a consignor lies to you remember him and dont do business with him. Simple.