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Originally Posted by somerfrost
I think one point that DTS made is that one man's illegal alien is another's pilgrim. There is a quote from Spike in BTVS that I paraphrase here: "You had better weapons, you slaughtered them and took their land, that's what nations do". The point being that when viewed in historical context, our "right" to this land came at the end of a bloody sword and to demonize people who come now in ways we see as "illegal" is, philosophically hypocritical. That's not to say we should open the doors to everybody..we need order and that IS the role of government. Still, the majority of these folks are honest and hardworking folks simply looking for a better life...not unlike our ancestors. We need answers, but pointing at the poor is always an effective strategy for the wealthy and powerful. Both ends of the political spectrum are involved in this mess...the "liberals" who are concerned about the welfare of these poor folks (and their votes) and the wealthy who have economic concerns (read: employ them). We sure don't need walls, we need a fair way of dealing with folks who are here and a coordinated effort with the Mexican government.
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maybe most of them are hard-working, that doesn't matter one bit.
This isn't about demonizing people, its about taking control. we are in agreement on that. I never said that these are lesser people. But all people should be treated equally, and when they're streaming across our border unchecked nobody knows who is hard-working and who is not. Which ones are gang members or criminals? Which ones are terrorists? We don't know because we let it go on unchecked.
To me the border abuse needs to stop and then we can deal with the rest, like what to do with those that are here now, and what to do in order to solve the employment/status issue.
Dealing with the Mexican Government? really? on this issue? to me that's naive because its in their interest to maintain the staus quo. Its not like they have much power in the matter anyway. The current trend is that drug cartels are calling the shots in the border areas.
The second largest source of income in Mexico is income transferred from the illegals in the US. Its second only to oil revenue. In no way do they want to abate the illegal transfer of people across the border.
Somer it may be hypocritical, because perhaps our ancestors were also once illegal aliens. So what? That fact doesn't make these folks legal. Like I asked DTS, what should we do, just invite everyone in. No we can't because then we would be overrun. If you think only peaceful hard-working people are coming over you're in a dreamworld. You are correct, our right to govern this land came at the end of a bloody sword. Do you know of another way? If you think about it it's always the one with the powerful sword calling the shots. Its not an option to meekly drop our guard and let everyone in because we feel guilty about how we took over this land.
I reject your simple assertion that its only liberals who are concerned about the welfare of these people and its the wealthy who are only concerned with employment. To me that might help you to make it a simple problem with a discernable bad guy, but its not quite that simple. There are rich liberals and there are conservatives that care about human welfare.
by the way, regarding the welfare of "these poor folks", what is the issue? I mean with the illegals that are already here? Is there some issue with the quality of life they are enjoying here that wouldn't be 10 times worse in their own country? If it was so bad I don't think they would stay. If it was such a raw deal they wouldn't build tunnels that are almost like expressways under the desert so that people can quickly cross over.
No I don't blame these people for creating the problem, that is our own fault and we have been remiss in allowing this to go on. And I truly belive its allowed to go on because of the access to cheap labor and I believe it also gives us a bump in the growth of the economy. Those are benefits we all have enjoyed rich, poor, liberal, conservative. I'm just concerned that this is terribly myopic and unfair and dangerous to the welfare of the US. Its time to face up and pay the piper. We can't bury our heads in the sand any longer.