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-   -   Never Retreat: It's Not Over Yet (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44845)

OldDog 12-13-2011 04:11 PM
Never Retreat: It's Not Over Yet
 
Quote:
HALLANDALE BEACH, Fla. – Never Retreat’s racing career is not over yet.

Never Retreat was scheduled to be retired following her 2011 finale in Hollywood Park’s Grade 1 Matriarch. But after finishing a disappointing third as the 4-5 favorite three weeks ago at Hollywood Park, trainer Chris Block decided to give his Grade 1 winner one last chance to show her stuff before heading off to the breeding shed this spring.

http://www.drf.com/news/gulfstream-p...end-career-win

RolloTomasi 12-13-2011 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDog (Post 824801)
I know it's a day late and a dollar short, but why was she odds-on in the Matriarch anyways? On paper, it was a pretty contentious race.

Anyways, not sure why a horse who spent most of her career in the second tier needs to make an extra start to "show what she can do".

RockHardTen1985 12-13-2011 05:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 824802)
I know it's a day late and a dollar short, but why was she odds-on in the Matriarch anyways? On paper, it was a pretty contentious race.

Anyways, not sure why a horse who spent most of her career in the second tier needs to make an extra start to "show what she can do".
Shes had a great overall year. A great year. Maybe she was a tad overbet, but was clearly the horse to beat. I guess she would have been fair around 7-5. How much higher could she possibly have been?

RolloTomasi 12-13-2011 06:09 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 824808)
Shes had a great overall year. A great year. Maybe she was a tad overbet, but was clearly the horse to beat. I guess she would have been fair around 7-5. How much higher could she possibly have been?
Laughable. She had a great year at Keeneland and Woodbine. Elsewhere, she was her typical bridesmaid self. She failed as favorite 3 times. In the vast majority of her races this year, most of which were Grade 3, she was 4-1 odds or higher.

I guess people figured she turned the corner somehow in the First Lady simply because it's a Grade 1. Of course, she only beat 3yo Together in that one. Fitting that an also-rans from the Queen Elizabeth II took it to her at Hollywood.

RockHardTen1985 12-13-2011 06:33 PM
Whatever you say.... On another note, this is Uncle Mo's FB status....


Hey friends...doing great!!!! Since I'm the freshman sire at Coolmore I was in charge of putting up ALL the holiday decorations. The farm is 2000 acres.....took me 10 days!!!! It was easier running the Kelso in 1 minute 33 than this. Off to sleep for 2 days. Hope all is well!

RolloTomasi 12-13-2011 06:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 824814)
Whatever you say.... On another note, this is Uncle Mo's FB status....


Hey friends...doing great!!!! Since I'm the freshman sire at Coolmore I was in charge of putting up ALL the holiday decorations. The farm is 2000 acres.....took me 10 days!!!! It was easier running the Kelso in 1 minute 33 than this. Off to sleep for 2 days. Hope all is well!
Let me guess what your FB status says:

Another thread hijacked! Look at me!

RockHardTen1985 12-13-2011 06:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 824817)
Let me guess what your FB status says:

Another thread hijacked! Look at me!
Its pointless. You respond with laughable? SHe was the horse to beat in that race. Her only competition was a bunch of 3yr olds who just ran like **** at Keeneland. Go back and look at the thread for the race though. I used Summer Soiree, I really liked her chances of rebounding in that spot and she did. Never Retreat had a bad trip also. She was wide and got her legs under her way to late. You say she only beat a 3yr old at Keeneland? Your making no sense. Her only competition in Cali was a couple 3yr olds. Unless you liked Motions other horse. I did at first and backed off her, its all in the race thread. Did I hijack it or did you? The thread was about the horse running again, trying to go out a winner after a long campaign. You came in with your own sorta redboard I guess, about her odds.

RolloTomasi 12-13-2011 07:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 824818)
Its pointless. You respond with laughable? SHe was the horse to beat in that race.
I'm pretty sure I only questioned why she was odds-on, not why she was favorite.

Quote:
Her only competition was a bunch of 3yr olds who just ran like **** at Keeneland. Go back and look at the thread for the race though. I used Summer Soiree, I really liked her chances of rebounding in that spot and she did.
What about Unbridled Humor? She was facing similar horses as Never Retreat and holding her own. The fact of the matter is that Never Retreat had hardly separated herself from her division to warrant such low odds in a race of that calibur.

Quote:
Never Retreat had a bad trip also. She was wide and got her legs under her way to late.
But she's a deserving odds-on favorite right? She holds such a superior position over the rest of the field that she should be able to handle a little 3-wide trip and still make a dent. She was no threat at any point.

Quote:
You say she only beat a 3yr old at Keeneland? Your making no sense. Her only competition in Cali was a couple 3yr olds. Unless you liked Motions other horse. I did at first and backed off her, its all in the race thread.
Again, ignore Unbridled Humor to fit your argument. The point about her beating Together was that the Grade 1 at Keeneland proved the 3yo filly division was not too far behind the older mares, if at all.

Quote:
Did I hijack it or did you? The thread was about the horse running again, trying to go out a winner after a long campaign. You came in with your own sorta redboard I guess, about her odds.
Actually, in addition to revisiting the Matriarch, I commented on the silliness of bringing her out for one more go 'round simply because she got beat at Hollywood.

At the very least, my comments were restricted to Never Retreat and not Uncle Mo or Facebook.

Thanks for playing.

RockHardTen1985 12-13-2011 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 824829)
I'm pretty sure I only questioned why she was odds-on, not why she was favorite.



What about Unbridled Humor? She was facing similar horses as Never Retreat and holding her own. The fact of the matter is that Never Retreat had hardly separated herself from her division to warrant such low odds in a race of that calibur.



But she's a deserving odds-on favorite right? She holds such a superior position over the rest of the field that she should be able to handle a little 3-wide trip and still make a dent. She was no threat at any point.



Again, ignore Unbridled Humor to fit your argument. The point about her beating Together was that the Grade 1 at Keeneland proved the 3yo filly division was not too far behind the older mares, if at all.



Actually, in addition to revisiting the Matriarch, I commented on the silliness of bringing her out for one more go 'round simply because she got beat at Hollywood.

At the very least, my comments were restricted to Never Retreat and not Uncle Mo or Facebook.

Thanks for playing.

I thought the Uncle Mo FB status was worth posting somewhere, but not worth a thread. I think its cool that a great horse can also type.

RockHardTen1985 12-13-2011 08:02 PM
I guess being wide the entire way with no cover at all is a good trip. That specific turf course especially you need to save ground.

RolloTomasi 12-13-2011 09:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 824833)
I guess being wide the entire way with no cover at all is a good trip.
Did I say it was a good trip? No. I said she shouldn't have been odds-on. Wide trip or not, she didn't run like she was 4-5.

Nevertheless, I'll play devil's advocate. It was another one of your magical wide, no cover trips in a small field. She was 2 wide into the first turn and then remained 2-wide drafting in behind Quiet Oasis down the backstretch. Leparoux took her out one path entering the stretch and she had no punch, all out just to collar the hopeless Quiet Oasis and the fading Unbridled Humor.

I predict she will fail to run like a 1-5 shot in the Grade 3 Marshua's River, too.

RockHardTen1985 12-13-2011 09:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 824848)
Did I say it was a good trip? No. I said she shouldn't have been odds-on. Wide trip or not, she didn't run like she was 4-5.

Nevertheless, I'll play devil's advocate. It was another one of your magical wide, no cover trips in a small field. She was 2 wide into the first turn and then remained 2-wide drafting in behind Quiet Oasis down the backstretch. Leparoux took her out one path entering the stretch and she had no punch, all out just to collar the hopeless Quiet Oasis and the fading Unbridled Humor.

I predict she will fail to run like a 1-5 shot in the Grade 3 Marshua's River, too.
You have responded to a bunch of nothing, but please respond to this because now you have peeked my interest. What exactly does this mean "another one of your magical wide, no cover trips in a small field"
If your implying I dont know how to watch a race then Ill take offense to that. Maybe 6 years ago when I was here as pg1985 I did not know better. At this point I think I have watched enough races, read enough and hung around enough people and places like this to know a bad trip. You dont want to be wide with no cover on the turf. Im also 100% sure Im not the only one who did not like her trip. I think her trip was mentioned on the National Racing Report also. Ill stand by this.... wide with no cover in that press position is the worst place to be during a race. I have always felt that way and nothing will change that. More often then not you see a horse in that position look loaded turning for home to have absolutely
nothing when its time to run.

RolloTomasi 12-13-2011 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 824850)
You have responded to a bunch of nothing, but please respond to this because now you have peeked my interest. What exactly does this mean "another one of your magical wide, no cover trips in a small field"
Mr. Commons in the Del Mar BC Mile.

Quote:
If your implying I dont know how to watch a race then Ill take offense to that. Maybe 6 years ago when I was here as pg1985 I did not know better. At this point I think I have watched enough races, read enough and hung around enough people and places like this to know a bad trip. You dont want to be wide with no cover on the turf. Im also 100% sure Im not the only one who did not like her trip. I think her trip was mentioned on the National Racing Report also.
I agree I've been responding to a bunch of nothing; this is more of the same. Once again, I never said her trip was ideal. I simply said her post time odds were out of whack. Regardless, she wasn't particularly wide. I don't buy the excuse that her trip explains her utter failure at odds-on.

Quote:
Ill stand by this.... wide with no cover in that press position is the worst place to be during a race. I have always felt that way and nothing will change that.
So says RockHardTen1985. But what would the 6-year old pg1985 have said?

RockHardTen1985 12-13-2011 10:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 824864)
Mr. Commons in the Del Mar BC Mile.



I agree I've been responding to a bunch of nothing; this is more of the same. Once again, I never said her trip was ideal. I simply said her post time odds were out of whack. Regardless, she wasn't particularly wide. I don't buy the excuse that her trip explains her utter failure at odds-on.



So says RockHardTen1985. But what would the 6-year old pg1985 have said?

If I knew how to do quotes like this I would, but I dont.... Lets start with Mr. Commons you were wrong then and your wrong now. Simple enough, right? I guess we are fighting about nothing then, because I said her odds were to low also. I said she should have been around 7-5. I guess we are fighting about $3.60 and $4.40?? I wont even respond to the last comment.

RolloTomasi 12-13-2011 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 824865)
If I knew how to do quotes like this I would, but I dont....
Maybe in another 6 years then...

Quote:
Lets start with Mr. Commons you were wrong then and your wrong now.
Why am I wrong? Mr. Commons still hasn't done anything of consequence to suggest that it was the trip did him in at Del Mar.

Quote:
Simple enough, right? I guess we are fighting about nothing then, because I said her odds were to low also. I said she should have been around 7-5. I guess we are fighting about $3.60 and $4.40??
You said she was a tad overbet. I said she was way overbet. You kept making excuses for her, citing her brutal trip. I said she didn't deserve to be odds-on. I said her trip wasn't as bad as some would let on.

Quote:
I wont even respond to the last comment.
Just did.

RockHardTen1985 12-13-2011 10:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 824868)
Maybe in another 6 years then...



Why am I wrong? Mr. Commons still hasn't done anything of consequence to suggest that it was the trip did him in at Del Mar.



You said she was a tad overbet. I said she was way overbet. You kept making excuses for her, citing her brutal trip. I said she didn't deserve to be odds-on. I said her trip wasn't as bad as some would let on.



Just did.

Ill be closer to 30 in another 6 years, hopefully I got it down by then.
Im not going back into the Mr. Commons thing. He got a bad trip, it was typical Mike Smith. Like I said you were wrong then, and still wrong. Actually Im not sure why you even brought it up now, because you had to know then you were wrong. Nothing of consequence? When could he have done anything, I thought he ran OK in the BC Mile. He is likely the best miler in the country right now, who exactly is better in America? Gio Ponti is gone, Courageous Cat is gone... Who does Mr. Commons have to beat?

Port Conway Lane 12-13-2011 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 824865)
If I knew how to do quotes like this I would, but I dont....
Use the icon directly to the left of the # sign on the menu bar.

RockHardTen1985 12-13-2011 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 824810)
Laughable. She had a great year at Keeneland and Woodbine. Elsewhere, she was her typical bridesmaid self. She failed as favorite 3 times. In the vast majority of her races this year, most of which were Grade 3, she was 4-1 odds or higher.

I guess people figured she turned the corner somehow in the First Lady simply because it's a Grade 1. Of course, she only beat 3yo Together in that one. Fitting that an also-rans from the Queen Elizabeth II took it to her at Hollywood.
Quote:
Ok.
Code:
Sure, whatever you say.

RockHardTen1985 12-13-2011 10:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Port Conway Lane (Post 824870)
Use the icon directly to the left of the # sign on the menu bar.
Post #18 is me trying, its not working.

RolloTomasi 12-13-2011 11:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 824872)
Post #18 is me trying, its not working.
No. Post #18 is the equivalent of someone throwing used toilet paper on the bathroom floor.


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