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-   -   Letting go ~ humanity in racing (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44651)

my miss storm cat 11-28-2011 03:08 PM

Letting go ~ humanity in racing
 
There's a question I've wanted to ask here for a long time.

There are a few reasons why I didn't but mostly I didn't want to upset anyone.

For the usual crowd who just don't understand me or the way I think I'm sorry in advance, okay? I'm sure it seems too stupid to you... things like people getting choked up over horses they don't own, etc.

I still close my eyes when the horses approach the part of the track where Hendrix broke down. I think I always will.

We deal with things in different ways and those of us who are more verbal with our grief... it doesn't mean we feel more. We just have a need to express it and get it out whereas you guys are able to stay in control.

I don't believe for a second anyone here is heartless and unmoved by such things.

Okay that said and hopefully that wil avoid a big problem between the types who consider themselves fans first vs those who consider themselves cappers.. I have a question for all of you. All of you.

Barbaro...

Was it right?

Was keeping him alive the humane thing to do?

Would it have been more humane had they not?

I wonder about this now, looking back... I am just so unsure either way and was wondering your thoughts on this.

Mondays are slow... figured I'd finally ask.

Tell me your truth. There is no right answer... I just wonder what you all feel, felt then, if it's changed... I wonder about all of it.

Indian Charlie 11-28-2011 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat (Post 820562)
There's a question I've wanted to ask here for a long time.

There are a few reasons why I didn't but mostly I didn't want to upset anyone.

For the usual crowd who just don't understand me or the way I think I'm sorry in advance, okay? I'm sure it seems too stupid to you... things like people getting choked up over horses they don't own, etc.

I still close my eyes when the horses approach the part of the track where Hendrix broke down. I think I always will.

We deal with things in different ways and those of us who are more verbal with our grief... it doesn't mean we feel more. We just have a need to express it and get it out whereas you guys are able to stay in control.

I don't believe for a second anyone here is heartless and unmoved by such things.

Okay that said and hopefully that wil avoid a big problem between the types who consider themselves fans first vs those who consider themselves cappers.. I have a question for all of you. All of you.

Barbaro...

Was it right?

Was keeping him alive the humane thing to do?

Would it have been more humane had they not?

I wonder about this now, looking back... I am just so unsure either way and was wondering your thoughts on this.

Mondays are slow... figured I'd finally ask.

Tell me your truth. There is no right answer... I just wonder what you all feel, felt then, if it's changed... I wonder about all of it.

Given the choice, I'm guessing the animal would have chosen to try to stay alive.

my miss storm cat 11-28-2011 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 820566)
Given the choice, I'm guessing the animal would have chosen to try to stay alive.

... and if you had owned Barbaro and months had gone by...

What then?

Would you have thought maybe he had had enough or kept him alive at any cost (I don't only mean financial here)?

Indian Charlie 11-28-2011 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat (Post 820569)
... and if you had owned Barbaro and months had gone by...

What then?

Would you have thought maybe he had had enough or kept him alive at any cost (I don't only mean financial here)?

You might be asking the wrong person. I thought Barbaro was one of the best two horses of the last ten or so years, so as long as he had a reasonable chance of surviving without that much pain and suffering during the recovery, yeah, I'd give him all the chances he could take.

my miss storm cat 11-28-2011 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Indian Charlie (Post 820574)
without that much pain and suffering during the recovery

I'm not arond horses the way some of you are / have been.

Is this that obvious?

I'm not suggesting it's not... I really want to know.

jms62 11-28-2011 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by my miss storm cat (Post 820576)
I'm not arond horses the way some of you are / have been.

Is this that obvious?

I'm not suggesting it's not... I really want to know.

Barbaro wanted to live and fought to the end. He knew when he was ready.

my miss storm cat 11-28-2011 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jms62 (Post 820577)
Barbaro wanted to live and fought to the end. He knew when he was ready.

That was lovely.

I don't know what i think... I'm happy to read an opinion such as yours.

Hope you are right.

OldDog 11-28-2011 03:56 PM

I believe it was the right thing to do. Not that I have personal knowledge of his circumstances, but based on the information that was made public it seemed that he did remarkably well with the initial surgery, and even against the setbacks it always seemed that he rebounded well.

No, the one about whom I might ask your question, if I was to ask it, would be the dazzlingly brilliant Ruffian. But even in her case, I understand that they had to try.

I don’t think I could ever tell an owner that they tried too hard.

Clip-Clop 11-28-2011 04:04 PM

Having had the means and the ability to maintain the horses comfort while trying to heal (based on everything I have read and heard the animal was a remarkable patient) they made the correct choice to continue to try and save him, coming awfully close too.
If nothing else it raised awareness and a good bit of research monies too.

Danzig 11-28-2011 04:25 PM

i absolutely think what they tried with barbaro was the right thing to do. he ultimately lost the battle, but the vet said more than once that if he could do it again, they'd have won it.
how many other horses will benefit from what he and others learned? plenty hopefully.

SilverRP 11-28-2011 04:46 PM

IMO they did exactly what they needed to do with Barbaro. They knew from the get go it was a long shot to save him (long term), but also knew he was a fighter and he (Barbaro) would let them know when it was time. And from all accounts, that's exactly what happened.

GenuineRisk 11-28-2011 06:47 PM

There's video of Barbaro in the autumn, when he'd healed enough to go out to graze. In the video, his ears are pricked forward and he's grunting and snorting as he aggressively tears into the grass. It's very sad that he couldn't be saved. But the video reminds you that he had good days after the accident- it wasn't solely a long road of suffering until the end.

Sightseek 11-28-2011 08:24 PM

I feel the same way that everyone else does above.

A good racehorse will give you everything they have and I believe a good owner will give everything to that animal who has brought them joy and companionship. I think that is the sort of relationship that Barbaro and the Jacksons shared. I believe that anyone who has that sort of connection with their animal whether a horse, a dog or a cat will know when it is time to say goodbye. No matter how difficult the decision is to make.

Riot 11-28-2011 08:40 PM

Quote:

=my miss storm cat;820562]
Was it right?
Was keeping him alive the humane thing to do?
Of course it was. The horse had a fracture, it was repaired, his pain was controlled, he was happy, he was out grazing, etc. He died of complications of laminitis, a secondary condition which could or could not have happened, not of his fracture repair.

Riot 11-28-2011 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldDog (Post 820585)
No, the one about whom I might ask your question, if I was to ask it, would be the dazzlingly brilliant Ruffian. But even in her case, I understand that they had to try.

Ruffian most likely could have been saved today, and would have a long, happy life as a broodmare. It was her anesthetic recovery, not her fracture repair, that was causative of her death.

King Glorious 11-28-2011 11:03 PM

Sightseek said "A good racehorse will give you everything they have." I think a bad one does too. He's just not as good as the good one. I don't really have a feeling one way or the other as to what they should have done with Barbaro. What I do feel is that he didn't deserve a better fate than any other horse did just because he was better. I would never say what his owners should have done because only they know what he meant to them and they had the resources to do what they did. That is their call and I respect it. My problem with the whole thing was the media coverage. Many horses give their all and lose their lives on the track with not a mention. I understand fame and celebrity and I understand that this is just the way it is.....but I don't like it. It wasn't Barbaro's fault but during the whole thing, I just wanted it to stop. Maybe that makes me a bad person but I just wanted it to be over. Not meaning that I wanted him to die but I just wanted to stop reading and hearing about him.

Sightseek 11-29-2011 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by King Glorious (Post 820711)
Sightseek said "A good racehorse will give you everything they have." I think a bad one does too. He's just not as good as the good one. I don't really have a feeling one way or the other as to what they should have done with Barbaro. What I do feel is that he didn't deserve a better fate than any other horse did just because he was better. I would never say what his owners should have done because only they know what he meant to them and they had the resources to do what they did. That is their call and I respect it. My problem with the whole thing was the media coverage. Many horses give their all and lose their lives on the track with not a mention. I understand fame and celebrity and I understand that this is just the way it is.....but I don't like it. It wasn't Barbaro's fault but during the whole thing, I just wanted it to stop. Maybe that makes me a bad person but I just wanted it to be over. Not meaning that I wanted him to die but I just wanted to stop reading and hearing about him.

I should clarify that I meant they will give you their all at their particular talent level. I agree with your bolded section.


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