? re lava man and flower alley
 

ok.....
flower alley has definitely wilted (:rolleyes--bad pun, eh?)....
lava man is undefeated on the year.

flower got a lot of hype for what he did last year heading into this year. so now we all know that LAST year is no guarantee of what will occur this year.
so, if flower is still respected for what he did last year...
shouldn't we all give a bit more to lava for what he's done this year...rather than constantly criticize his off days last year?

obviously one season means nothing regarding the next, right?

also, knowing how lava man exited his last race last year in cali (vanned off) i don't think he'd have won anywhere after. they're lucky they didn't ruin him after shippiing and running twice after that.

but hopefully they've learned from their mistake.

also, if lava wins against the tin man, will that garner more (some?) respect from those who have been critical?

The standard at this point in most racing circles is turning to Bernardini. Lava Man has to finish in front of Bernardini in the Classic to win HOY.

You make a lot of good points here. I'll make 2 comments.

1. Maybe giving a horse (Flower Alley) 8 months off is a bit too long of a "freshening"!

2. If Lava Man beats The Tin Man, Lava Man will gain little respect from those who don't already respect him. That's because The Tin Man himself won little respect for his awesome Arlington win, and also because the race is in Calif, don't ya' know. Even grass races don't count as a different surface when "Calif" is attached to it. Of course, if The Tin Man beats Lava Man, it will confirm the doubters' suspicions. And if both lose, whoa, it'll be a gloater's paradise.

--Dunbar

very very true on point 2

depends on what bernardini does in the jcgc....


i'm not necessarily talking about who will win HOY....i'm just saying that i've seen a lot of knocks on this horse for what happened last year. that and 'who has he beaten' this year.

i guess i just think he ought to get more points for what he's done this year, than what he didn't do last year. also, why all the free passes for flower alley going into yesterday, still went off at 2-1! he's allowed a bad race, yet lava man isn't....and i sure don't remember a lot of criticism for the field flower alley beat in the salvator....

i guess i'm just looking for some consistency in peoples thoughts about different horses.

lava man ain't the goods

i'd love to see something to show how you came to that conclusion.

is it him going undefeated this year?
wins on turf as well as dirt?
him being the first to win the big cap, h'wood gold cup and pac classic in the same year?

or maybe the 3.5 million in earnings?
six wins in six starts this year....four gr one wins, including one on turf?

oh, and he's the first in 21 years to win gr 1's on turf and dirt....yeah, what a nag.