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-   -   world t bred rankings (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39546)

hoovesupsideyourhead 11-13-2010 10:38 AM
world t bred rankings
 
zenyatta at no 10..lol

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...hbred-rankings

reality check

The Indomitable DrugS 11-13-2010 10:48 AM
Harbinger was by far the best horse in the world this year. Only having him six better than any other horse in the world is understating his overwhelming superiority.

parsixfarms 11-13-2010 11:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead (Post 722769)
reality check
Not really. Those rankings are a joke, and I'm not even talking about Zenyatta. If you subscribe to their legitimacy, you have Goldikova as being only the fourth best miler in Europe and merely on par with Twice Over.

RockHardTen1985 11-13-2010 04:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoovesupsideyourhead (Post 722769)
zenyatta at no 10..lol

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...hbred-rankings

reality check
If Blame is the #2 horse in anything we have a HUGE PROBLEM in horse racing.
His nost victory over her and horrible effort in the JCGC make him the #2 horse in the world.
These rankings are a total joke.

eajinabi 11-13-2010 05:05 PM
and Zenyatta beat 3 horses on that list

RolloTomasi 11-13-2010 05:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 722884)
If Blame is the #2 horse in anything we have a HUGE PROBLEM in horse racing.
His nost victory over her and horrible effort in the JCGC make him the #2 horse in the world.
These rankings are a total joke.
What was so horrible about Blame's JCGC if looked upon as a "prep" race?

Weren't a lot of people touting him as an up-and-comer last season after a similar effort in Regal Ransom's merry-go-round Super Derby?

parsixfarms 11-13-2010 06:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardus (Post 722894)
I'd take So You Think over Zenyatta up to and including 10 furlongs.
On which surface, dirt or synthetic?

zippyneedsawin 11-13-2010 06:41 PM
I'd say Shuback sums it up pretty well in his column when comparing 'Z' and Goldikova on drf.com:


Both Goldikova and Zenyatta won five Group or Grade 1 races in 2010, but there is little resemblance in the quality of the fields the two were beating in those races.

In her four Group 1 victories in Europe and her Grade 1 Breeders’ Cup Mile triumph, Goldikova was beating 16 winners of 37 Group or Grade 1 races. The overall Group/Grade 1 record of her competition in those five races is 157-37-25-19.

In her five Grade 1 victories this year, Zenyatta was beating not a single Grade 1 winner. The overall Group/Grade 1 record of her competition in those five races is 28-0-1-2. Moreover, Zenyatta beat just two Grade 2 winners in those five races, St Trinians in the Vanity Handicap and Switch in the Lady's Secret.

In fact, while Zenyatta’s five victories this year were all technically Grade 1’s, the quality of the competition indicates that they were no better than Grade 3’s.

http://drf.com/news/goldikova-rules-world

TheSpyder 11-13-2010 07:53 PM
snap!

Dahoss 11-13-2010 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 722898)
What was so horrible about Blame's JCGC if looked upon as a "prep" race?
Absolutely nothing of course...and considering how he ran in the Classic those of us that viewed his JCGC as a prep were obviously correct. Remember when horses ran preps and after it (pre internet) people didn't think they sucked if they didn't win a race that was clearly a prep?

my miss storm cat 11-13-2010 08:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by parsixfarms (Post 722804)
Those rankings are a joke.
I say that every time.

The list, in its entirety...

http://www.horseracingintfed.com/res...0_1111_WTR.asp

RockHardTen1985 11-13-2010 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 722898)
What was so horrible about Blame's JCGC if looked upon as a "prep" race?

Weren't a lot of people touting him as an up-and-comer last season after a similar effort in Regal Ransom's merry-go-round Super Derby?
Sure he was, and why would that 750k Grade 1 be a prep? He was in it to win it.
Im just not crazy about him. He is in the bottom 5 of BC Classic winners all time. Im waiting for PP's so I can do a list....
But just since 2000 he is not better then... IMO he is not better then Zenyatta. Not better then Ravens Pass. Not better then Curlin, likely not better then Hard Spun or Street Sense, both in that 2007 Classic. Kinda reminds me of Invasor, not sure he is better, 100% not better then Bernardini who ran 2nd. Not better then Saint Liam, not better then RHT who scratched morning of. Not better then Ghostzapper and about 5 others in that 2004 race. Not better then Pleasantly Perfect. Maybe, MAYBE BETTER THEN VOLPONI who ran some huge beyers in some big spots. Not better then Tiznow, not better then either Euro Tiznow beat, and not better then a bunch of horses out of those 2000-2001 Classics.

DaTruth 11-13-2010 09:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 722946)
Sure he was, and why would that 750k Grade 1 be a prep? He was in it to win it.
A $750k stakes is a prep when it is used to prepare a horse for a much richer race.

Not too long ago, your dirt stakes horses that went a route of ground would prep for their big engagements in allowance races at sprint distances. For some reason, this does not quite happen as often, but prep races are alive and well in the dirt ranks.

RockHardTen1985 11-13-2010 09:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaTruth (Post 722947)
A $750k stakes is a prep when it is used to prepare a horse for a much richer race.

Not too long ago, your dirt stakes horses that went a route of ground would prep for their big engagements in allowance races at sprint distances. For some reason, this does not quite happen as often, but prep races are alive and well in the dirt ranks.
If it was a prep then maybe thats a big problem with the game. What about all those bettors that made him odds on? He really should have run 3rd, if Fly Down could just figure things out.

Danzig 11-13-2010 10:08 PM
every spring race leading up to the derby is called a prep-and some are with million dollar purses. obviously the jcgc would have been a nice race to win...but blame lost that battle and won the war. sounds like it all worked out just fine. and yes, it is a prep. one with a nice purse, but a prep for bigger and better all the same.

Dahoss 11-13-2010 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzig (Post 722955)
every spring race leading up to the derby is called a prep-and some are with million dollar purses. obviously the jcgc would have been a nice race to win...but blame lost that battle and won the war. sounds like it all worked out just fine. and yes, it is a prep. one with a nice purse, but a prep for bigger and better all the same.
Imagine the idea that running in a prep race is what is wrong with the game? It's the complete opposite. Horses not running is a huge part of what is wrong with the game. That is why we see 5 horse stakes races. Because everyone would rather duck and dodge for the perfect spot instead of running.

RolloTomasi 11-13-2010 10:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 722949)
If it was a prep then maybe thats a big problem with the game.
What? That horses are flesh and blood and can't be expected to run their top race every time they run?

Quote:
What about all those bettors that made him odds on?
Those are the bettors that you make money off of. The one's that don't see the big picture (BC Preview Day) or recognize today's conditions (lone speed horse, Haynesfield, a multiple winner over the track and distance) may not be ideal.

The same type of bettors that "overreact" to the progression or regression of a horse. Blame had only been favored in one stakes race in his career up to that point, the Grade 3 Schaefer at Pimlico. He was suddenly a monster because he beat the much lauded Quality Road at Saratoga.

The same thing occured, full circle, with Unrivaled Belle this year. She trumped uber-filly Rachel Alexandra and therefore became an instant "monster", going off at odds-on in 2 of her next 3 starts. Yet fans had enough of her runner-up efforts in those races, including a 2nd in the Beldame (yet another perfect "prep" if you look at the big picture), and let her go off at 7-1 in the BC Distaff.

Quote:
He really should have run 3rd, if Fly Down could just figure things out.
That would have been great. Then those with your mentality might have really got off him and let him get away at 8-1 or so.

RockHardTen1985 11-13-2010 10:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolloTomasi (Post 722960)
What? That horses are flesh and blood and can't be expected to run their top race every time they run?



Those are the bettors that you make money off of. The one's that don't see the big picture (BC Preview Day) or recognize today's conditions (lone speed horse, Haynesfield, a multiple winner over the track and distance) may not be ideal.

The same type of bettors that "overreact" to the progression or regression of a horse. Blame had only been favored in one stakes race in his career up to that point, the Grade 3 Schaefer at Pimlico. He was suddenly a monster because he beat the much lauded Quality Road at Saratoga.

The same thing occured, full circle, with Unrivaled Belle this year. She trumped uber-filly Rachel Alexandra and therefore became an instant "monster", going off at odds-on in 2 of her next 3 starts. Yet fans had enough of her runner-up efforts in those races, including a 2nd in the Beldame (yet another perfect "prep" if you look at the big picture), and let her go off at 7-1 in the BC Distaff.



That would have been great. Then those with your mentality might have really got off him and let him get away at 8-1 or so.

Haynesfield was a winner at 10f before the JCGC?

RolloTomasi 11-13-2010 10:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockHardTen1985 (Post 722961)
Haynesfield was a winner at 10f before the JCGC?
Yeah, you got me. I guess the Suburban is only 9f nowadays.

Disregard everything I said.


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