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-   -   Phar Lap mystery solved (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23423)

DogsUp 06-19-2008 11:31 PM

Phar Lap mystery solved
 
http://sports.yahoo.com/rah/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns

Echo Farm 06-20-2008 12:33 PM

They (fans from down under) still think it was the mob no matter what any study says.

Bobby Fischer 06-20-2008 12:38 PM

maybe it was

tonics don't necessarily contain "massive doses"

Bigsmc 06-20-2008 02:44 PM

Excellent. Now, where is Shergar?

cowgirlintexas 06-20-2008 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigsmc
Excellent. Now, where is Shergar?

Buried under a house somewhere is what I heard.

Danzig 06-20-2008 10:37 PM

he's in my daughters bedroom, along with jimmy hoffa...no way it's just her stuff in there!

prudery 06-20-2008 11:41 PM

More b.s. from Yahoo ... This is old news in every way ...

The test was performed in 2006, and the mystery was proclaimed solved then by the same scientists... Replay ...

The hairs tested came from the taxidermy---which was preserved with arsenic ...

Many horses of Phar Lap's time received tonic containing arsenic, and strychnine ... Also containing similar toxins was the grass sprayed with insecticide he was accidently grazed on at Menlo Park ...

The 1932 autopsy clearly showed arsenic in his system---more old news ...


All this proved was that he died with arsenic in his system---long known---not the cause of death ... And that the hairs from the taxidermy preserved with arsenic showed---mirabile dictu---duh---arsenic ...

hi_im_god 06-20-2008 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prudery
More b.s. from Yahoo ... This is old news in every way ...

The test was performed in 2006, and the mystery was proclaimed solved then by the same scientists... Replay ...

The hairs tested came from the taxidermy---which was preserved with arsenic ...

Many horses of Phar Lap's time received tonic containing arsenic, and strychnine ... Also containing similar toxins was the grass sprayed with insecticide he was accidently grazed on at Menlo Park ...

The 1932 autopsy clearly showed arsenic in his system---more old news ...


All this proved was that he died with arsenic in his system---long known---not the cause of death ... And that the hairs from the taxidermy preserved with arsenic showed---mirabile dictu---duh---arsenic ...

"however, in 2006 Australian Synchrotron Research scientists said it was almost certain Phar Lap was poisoned with a large single dose of arsenic 35 hours before he died, supporting the theory that Phar Lap was killed on the orders of US gangsters, who feared the Melbourne-Cup-winning champion would inflict big losses on their illegal bookmakers.[3]

Sydney veterinarian Dr Percy Sykes believes poisoning did not cause the death. He said "In those days, arsenic was quite a common tonic, usually given in the form of a solution (Fowler's Solution)," and suggests this was the cause of the high levels. "It was so common that I'd reckon 90 per cent of the horses had arsenic in their system."[4] In December 2007 Phar Lap's mane was tested to find if he was given repeated doses of arsenic which, if found, would point to accidental poisoning.

On June 19, 2008, the Melbourne Museum released the findings of the forensic investigation conducted by Dr. Ivan Kempson, University of South Australia, and Dermot Henry, Natural Science Collections at Museum Victoria. Dr. Kempson took six hairs from Phar Lap’s mane and analyzed them at the Advanced Photon Source in Chicago. These high resolution x-rays detect arsenic in hair samples, showing the specific difference "between arsenic which had entered the hair cells via the blood and arsenic which had infused the hair cells by the taxidermy process when he was stuffed and mounted at the museum". [5]

Kempson and Henry discovered that in the 30 to 40 hours before Phar Lap’s death, the horse ingested a massive dose of arsenic. "We can't speculate where the arsenic came from, but it was easily accessible at the time," Henry said. [6]"

^
wikipedia

thought you should know.

Riot 06-21-2008 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
he's in my daughters bedroom, along with jimmy hoffa...no way it's just her stuff in there!

:tro: :tro: :D

prudery 06-21-2008 12:36 AM

Wikipedia is not anymore reliable than Yahoo at times ... I wish I could find the article I found from Australia---after a couple of glasses of wine---that claimed the arsenic was yet indistinguishable ...


At any rate, the arsenic in the insecticide was ingested---duh, internally as well ...

Arsenic poisoning also produces diarrhea, which Phar Lap did not have prior to his death according to the veterinary reports of the time ......

The 40 hour ingestion was improved upon Phar Lap's then vet Nielsen, who targeted the onset of illness at 48 without modern technology ..

I appreciate the reference, but I am not yet sold ...

Phar Lap is a favorite of mine, and I have a 1933 rare book written by a vet who witnessed the opening of his heart ... He concurs that arsenic was present, but promotes the acute enteritis theory ...

Certainly the arsenic was recognized then, but the latest claim that a " large dose was ingested " does not ---with all the technology---indicate how large and how much was needed to prove fatal .....

I am sticking with the probable cause being Duodenitis-Proximal Jejeunitis--a nearly always fatal bacterial derived enteritis thought to be related to botulism ...

That a buildup of residual and additional toxins like arsenic may have triggered this affliction is very likely ...

In any event, the horse died toxic, and it was a wretched and undeserved death for this outstanding racehorse ...

hi_im_god 06-21-2008 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prudery
Wikipedia is not anymore reliable than Yahoo at times ... I wish I could find the article I found from Australia---after a couple of glasses of wine---that claimed the arsenic was yet indistinguishable ...


At any rate, the arsenic in the insecticide was ingested---duh, internally as well ...

Arsenic poisoning also produces diarrhea, which Phar Lap did not have prior to his death according to the veterinary reports of the time ......

The 40 hour ingestion was improved upon Phar Lap's then vet Nielsen, who targeted the onset of illness at 48 without modern technology ..

I appreciate the reference, but I am not yet sold ...

Phar Lap is a favorite of mine, and I have a 1933 rare book written by a vet who witnessed the opening of his heart ... He concurs that arsenic was present, but promotes the acute enteritis theory ...

Certainly the arsenic was recognized then, but the latest claim that a " large dose was ingested " does not ---with all the technology---indicate how large and how much was needed to prove fatal .....

I am sticking with the probable cause being Duodenitis-Proximal Jejeunitis--a nearly always fatal bacterial derived enteritis thought to be related to botulism ...

That a buildup of residual and additional toxins like arsenic may have triggered this affliction is very likely ...

In any event, the horse died toxic, and it was a wretched and undeserved death for this outstanding racehorse ...

"In 2000, equine specialists studying the two necropsies concluded that Phar Lap probably died of duodenitis-proximal jejunitis, an acute bacterial gastroenteritis. It was not until the 1980s that the infection could be formally identified."

^
same article

he died in 1932. why is "new info" in 2000 more reliable than "new info" in 2008?

prudery 06-21-2008 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hi_im_god
"In 2000, equine specialists studying the two necropsies concluded that Phar Lap probably died of duodenitis-proximal jejunitis, an acute bacterial gastroenteritis. It was not until the 1980s that the infection could be formally identified."

^
same article

he died in 1932. why is "new info" in 2000 more reliable than "new info" in 2008?

I like the way you think ...

The DPJ theory was totally consistant with all earlier anecdotal and medical evidence including necropsy from 1932 on ... At the time of Phar Lap's death, the vets ruled out arsenic as the exclusive killer and ruled in enteritis in conjunction with arsenic---though this form was unknown then ...

More congruence than the 2008 stuff, IMHO ...

Arsenic being the exact cause of death was ruled out from the get go based on necropsy and clinical symptoms ... A modern test which reveals a large dose of arsenic without detailing the amount needed to induce death, and the amount of time it would take from ingestion to death,to me, can not be the final answer ....

I was, however mistaken that the test was one done prior in 2006, it was the latest version of this technology ...


What I guess I am saying is that I do not believe the test can conclusively rule out that arsenic and other toxins can result in DPJ ... Can it ??? And how ... It only reveals a large amount of arsenic in the sytem, if indeed the separation of taxidermy and ingested arsenic was exact as claimed ...

Stubborn beeyatch, aren't I ???

Pedigree Ann 06-21-2008 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danzig
he's in my daughters bedroom, along with jimmy hoffa...no way it's just her stuff in there!

Nah, he's under all my daughter's stuffed animals. They carpet her room, three or four deep.

Thunder Gulch 06-21-2008 10:03 AM

The real mystery is anything but solved. They may determine the cause of death, but the who and why are the big questions.


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