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-   -   Borel's in Preakness (http://www.derbytrail.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13509)

eajinabi 05-23-2007 01:49 AM
Borel's ride in the Preakness
 
I dont know if this has been brought up but in my opinion Calvins Borel ride cost him the win in the preakness.

at the stretch, borel should have given street sense a vigorous hand ride instead of whipping him constantly. He had a 2 length lead and yet he was still whipping the horse and that cuased street sense to lose intrest.

I know its a woulda-coulda-shoulda scenario but I know if it was Bailey, McCarron, Stevens, Pincay or Day riding that horse, Street Sense would have won. Its jockeys like these who know how to ride in big time races.

outofthebox 05-23-2007 04:09 AM
People just need to get over this. I wish every horse i've ever run could get the trip and ride that Calvin gave SS. SS got beat by a better horse on this particular day,,,lets lay this topic to rest....

Jax Cajun 05-23-2007 06:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by outofthebox
People just need to get over this. I wish every horse i've ever run could get the trip and ride that Calvin gave SS. SS got beat by a better horse on this particular day,,,lets lay this topic to rest....
Good point, it's all Monday morning QB. I've heard some angry people on Steve's show that sounded like SS cost them some $$, and of course they blame Borel. A jockey can go from hero to goat in a matter of seconds.

JDank34 05-23-2007 07:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I don't know if I could possibly disagree more. It is kind of humorous though that a mere 2 weeks later after one of, if not the best Derby rides, now Borel is the subject of ridicule. Borel is in a lose-lose situation here. If he gives a vigorous hand ride like you say, I'm sure people question why he wasn't whipping. I will say that you are the first I have heard to question his whipping. I saw nothing wrong at all with his ride.

He did look back for a split second, but it doesn't appear to me, at least, that it caused the horse any momentum. The horse was just outrun to the wire and it is what it is. Saying that the other jockeys would have won with the horse where he didn't is just ridiculous. The jockey's you mention are Hall of Famers no doubt, but Borel proved Derby Day that he can win a big race. The horse was beat a head, if he gets that head in front no one says a word. Just seems like a lot of sour grapes from people that needed Street Sense and are looking to blame someone.

well said

miraja2 05-23-2007 08:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eajinabi
I dont know if this has been brought up but in my opinion Calvins Borel ride cost him the win in the preakness.

at the stretch, borel should have given street sense a vigorous hand ride instead of whipping him constantly. He had a 2 length lead and yet he was still whipping the horse and that cuased street sense to lose intrest.

I know its a woulda-coulda-shoulda scenario but I know if it was Bailey, McCarron, Stevens, Pincay or Day riding that horse, Street Sense would have won. Its jockeys like these who know how to ride in big time races.
Curlin beat Street Sense that day....not CB.
But I will tell you one thing, I seriously doubt that Street Sense would have won the Derby had any of those jocks you mention been on his back that day. They were obviously great riders, but I doubt that any of them would have attempted the ride CB gave him in the Derby.

Danzig 05-23-2007 09:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHoss9698
I don't know if I could possibly disagree more. It is kind of humorous though that a mere 2 weeks later after one of, if not the best Derby rides, now Borel is the subject of ridicule. Borel is in a lose-lose situation here. If he gives a vigorous hand ride like you say, I'm sure people question why he wasn't whipping. I will say that you are the first I have heard to question his whipping. I saw nothing wrong at all with his ride.

He did look back for a split second, but it doesn't appear to me, at least, that it caused the horse any momentum. The horse was just outrun to the wire and it is what it is. Saying that the other jockeys would have won with the horse where he didn't is just ridiculous. The jockey's you mention are Hall of Famers no doubt, but Borel proved Derby Day that he can win a big race. The horse was beat a head, if he gets that head in front no one says a word. Just seems like a lot of sour grapes from people that needed Street Sense and are looking to blame someone.
well, obviously dominican proved himself a better horse, and now curlin has....:rolleyes:

MaTH716 05-23-2007 11:04 AM
I really have no problem with the ride, and the fact that Curlin got SS at the wire. I think that they are both excellent horses and I hope they are around to run at four. It didn't cost me anything so it is not sour grapes. Although, I would have liked to see SS go to Belmont with a shot at the TC. I just wish that Calvin did not look back when he did. I think he had nothing to gain by getting a glimpse at that point. Especially knowing that the horse can get a little lazy in the stretch when he gets ahead. I think he looked because he was hoping he was clear so he could showboat at the wire like he did in the derby. I want to believe that the look did not cost him, but I just can't get away from it.

Bobby Fischer 05-23-2007 11:50 AM
Its a little crazy to think, but if some of us are right about the energy distribution and timing in a race (and our views may be way off as well!) , then a lot of these jockeys don't have a perfect sense of timing a pace. Even if they did some of the moves they make wouldn't be corrected in real time - an error usually only becomes obvious in hindsight.

Its all part of the game. Hopefully they demonstrate some level of consistency.

Jax Cajun 05-23-2007 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaTH716
I really have no problem with the ride, and the fact that Curlin got SS at the wire. I think that they are both excellent horses and I hope they are around to run at four. It didn't cost me anything so it is not sour grapes. Although, I would have liked to see SS go to Belmont with a shot at the TC. I just wish that Calvin did not look back when he did. I think he had nothing to gain by getting a glimpse at that point. Especially knowing that the horse can get a little lazy in the stretch when he gets ahead. I think he looked because he was hoping he was clear so he could showboat at the wire like he did in the derby. I want to believe that the look did not cost him, but I just can't get away from it.
I seriously doubt that Calvin was looking to showboat. He felt Curlin coming and peeked back to see where he was. Calvin wasn't running so looking back does not deter the horse. The horse had already quit racing because he thought he'd won, according to Carl. Now you can think he is lying to everybody or believe your own interpretation.

MaTH716 05-23-2007 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jax Cajun
I seriously doubt that Calvin was looking to showboat. He felt Curlin coming and peeked back to see where he was. Calvin wasn't running so looking back does not deter the horse. The horse had already quit racing because he thought he'd won, according to Carl. Now you can think he is lying to everybody or believe your own interpretation.
I just think that he had nothing to gain by looking back. If he felt Curlin coming, he should have tried to get a little more out of SS. I do not if it would have mattered, but you saw what he lost by.

eajinabi 05-23-2007 04:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaTH716
I just think that he had nothing to gain by looking back. If he felt Curlin coming, he should have tried to get a little more out of SS. I do not if it would have mattered, but you saw what he lost by.

Looking back is not an issue. My issue is why he continued to whip the horse when having a two length lead. If he stayed off the whip, you have yourself a shot at The TC.

The Indomitable DrugS 05-23-2007 04:43 PM
Curlin stumbled out of the gate, had to ridden along at a key stage very early on in the race, was under a hand ride long before the half mile pole, didn't corner well on the far turn, and got swallowed off the far turn because he couldn't get the needed seperation on Street Sense.....

Borel rode a flawless race....and his horse has a habit of doing everything wrong in the very late stages of his race.

This thread is a bit comical.

I'm just waiting for a 'How easily would Curlin have won the Derby if he was ridden by Ramon Dominguez?' thread.

eajinabi 05-23-2007 04:57 PM
"....has a habit of doing everything wrong in the very late stages of his race"

The jock helped him do it.

PeteMugg 05-23-2007 05:07 PM
Hats off to Curlin for being the best in the Preakness. I had a good day of capping so it's not sour grapes on my part, but all this about Borel being flawless is getting pretty old, too. Heck, he tried to run up Curlin's ass in the very first turn, had to check a bit and definitely lost some ground. As to looking back in the stretch, can't say it cost him the race, but it was not the thing to do. Far from flawless.

JDank34 05-23-2007 06:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by eajinabi
"....has a habit of doing everything wrong in the very late stages of his race"

The jock helped him do it.

when is the last time you have ridden in a horse race? if he stopped whipping and hand rode you would then be on here stating that jocks carry whips for a reason and if he hit SS 2 more times he would have won. give it a rest. SS and Curlin are 2 very nice colts who ran a very memorable race.

Bobby Fischer 05-23-2007 07:14 PM
If anything maybe Borel was a little aggressive coming into the turn and left his horse with a lot to do in the lane.

I can't fault a guy for making his move at the top of the stretch with a horse that was in position to take the lead.
When you force your competition to come up huge to win by a nose, then you did your job.

disappearingdan_akaplaya 05-24-2007 01:57 PM
i wanna TC winner as bad as any1 else, smarty jones was clearly the best that year and was that horse but unfortunately as we all know things didnt work out! i woulda loves to see SS win it as well but hes not the best of his bunch. on the other hand hes 1 helluva racehorse as weve all witnessed, i didnt even think hed fire in b -more after seein him washy be4 the race but he ran his race and calvin did nothing wrong, was just beaten by the better horse

Danzig 05-24-2007 07:30 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/hor...ory?id=2880450

excellent article by randy moss, who puts to bed the issue of whether borel cost street sense the middle jewel, whether a horse who wins under a hand ride could go faster had he been given a few whacks, and that pesky 'pimlico has tight turns' myth...


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